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July 17, 2015 8:11 pm  #1


Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

This question's really whirling in my head. Sherlock is always jealous if he's not in the centre of attention. For example he is very jealous when Mary tells him that John talks a lot about Sholto, but obviously rarely about Sherlock.
With John marrying Mary everything changes for Sherlock: He has to live of his own again, he has to share his best friend with a woman (and as we know soon with a baby), he has to share John's attention and care and so on.
So why does he never ever show any sign of jealousy or awkwardness?
Is it because he just doesn't care of "sharing" John?
Is it because he knows that Mary is no "danger" for him because he simply knows that he will always come first (well, I'm no johnlocker, but I consider it as a possible answer here)?

Sherlock knows pretty well that a lot of things will change and obviously not to his advantage. So why does he stay so calm and peaceful, so "un-jealous", although Mary will "own" a big piece of his best freind from now on.


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July 17, 2015 8:19 pm  #2


Re: Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

My personal take on it is that it has to do with Sherlock's emotional growth. He can see that Mary makes John happy, and that is more important to him than just keeping John 100% to himself.

Having that said, I do think in a way he is jealous. He just doesn't let it show like he does with Sholto. Instead it comes across as resigned sadness. 


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July 17, 2015 8:57 pm  #3


Re: Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

What? He isn´t jealous of her?
Now that´s a surprise.... http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png
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July 17, 2015 10:31 pm  #4


Re: Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

I agree with Vanja, I think Sherlock puts John's happiness far ahead of his own.

 

July 18, 2015 7:29 am  #5


Re: Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

Also Mary comes on the scene (for Sherlock) just as he returns after the fall.   When it becomes clear to him how badly John was affected, he spends much of the rest of the episode trying to apologise and be forgiven.  Mary is no barrier to that - and she could have been, if she'd wanted to (clearly she didn't).   After all, Mary could have been jealous of Sherlock - the exciting, enigmatic friend who has a special relationship with John.   She could have tried to limit contact, but instead she seems to try to get them together.  (For me, watching, I like to see Sherlock and John as a couple, and it feels as if she's pushing into the relationship! I particularly don't like the way she almost treats them like children.   But I can see, objectively, that she is not coming between them - quite the opposite).   Mary is also sympathetic towards Sherlock at the beginning, especially that little scene together after the restaurants.   I can see why Sherlock, coming back after two years of hell, public degradation, losing everything, torture, etc., might warm to somebody who seemed to be on his side like that (and so ignore the clues that there she was "in disguise"). 

(Mary has a different role in John's life - a role Sherlock isn't interested in.   He certainly is jealous when he sees John with Sholto, so he's perfectly capable of feeling that.  I think John is aware that Sherlock is worried about a change in their relationship after the wedding (although Sherlock claims that he isn't worried), but that's not about jealousy of Mary - it's concern about seeing less of John. 

 

July 19, 2015 7:23 am  #6


Re: Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

Yeah, I agree. Mary isn't really a barrier when it comes to Sherlock's access to John. Remember, John left Baker Street before Sherlock came back, it is not like he suddenly packed up because he wanted to life with Mary. So when Sherlock is back, John is already gone and Mary is someone who pushes John in Sherlock's direction instead of pulling him away from him. And yes, her role in John's life is different. I think Sherlock is very aware that John has "needs". On a plus, Mary comes without a family, so they still can spend christmas together ;-)

 

July 21, 2015 1:52 pm  #7


Re: Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

Well, you can say Sherlock isn't jealous because he knows John has needs and he isn't interested in the role Mary has, but he was always jealous of John's girlfriends before (Sarah, Jeanette, the other one he lists to Jeanette at Christmas) and didn't care if he was preventing him from satisfying his needs.

So yeah, it definitely could have to do with Sherlock being more emotionally mature, for me though it's due to Mary being a 'help' in trying to win John back in TEH when Sherlock needed John to forgive him. I don't even think he liked her back then - he just saw her as a helper, a 'tool' to get John back. After, I think we're meant to understand that Sherlock knows Mary is important to John and  'accepts' it because John's happiness is important to him.
Although he definitely is aware he'll have to share him and isn't happy about it (see him leaving the wedding early when he realises John 'won't need him anymore now he has a real baby on the way')

 

July 21, 2015 7:22 pm  #8


Re: Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

First of all, thank you very much so far for your input and thoughts! I'm still thinking about this business and going to post my further thoughts on it, but at the moment I'm very busy with university stuff - just need a quiet hour to answer, without any hectic.


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July 21, 2015 8:58 pm  #9


Re: Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

I never viewed it as jealousy, more like...."John is getting married now and I won't see him as often" and that makes him kind of sad and lonely, but of course he would never tell anyone that. There's signs we can see on the screen - the way he stares folornly at the empty armchair, and then his behaviour and departure during the final dance scene to name a couple.

I don't think he's "jealous" in the traditional sense because a) he and John don't share the same 'type' of relationship as John shares with Mary (yet!), so there is nothing specifically to be jealous OF in that sense, and b) he has always put John's needs before his own and if John is happy then he will be happy for him.


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July 21, 2015 9:08 pm  #10


Re: Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

Yes, I think so too. He is kinda resignated to the knowledge that he "lost" John to Mary and the nostalgia and pain have made him somewhat apathetic towards whole situation. Thus we have no overt jealousy of Mary visible on screen.


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

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July 22, 2015 2:29 am  #11


Re: Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

And, why wouldn't Sherlock be resigned to the idea that John, now married to Mary and expecting a child-- would fade from his life? Which John did-- he hadn't seen Sherlock (or talked to him, evidently) for a month before he discovered Sherlock in the drugs den. And everyone told Sherlock from the begining: 
"marriage changes people," , "The end of an era", etc,...

Jealous, no. Sad and resigned, yes. 

 

July 22, 2015 6:57 am  #12


Re: Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

Yes, I agree with you, nakahara and Raven. The only time Sherlock seems jealous in series 3 is when Mary talks about Sholto at the wedding. 
I would like to add that Sherlock does not show jealousy towards Mary because he a) is still feeling guilty because of the fall and b) he wants what he thinks is best for John. 


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July 22, 2015 7:51 am  #13


Re: Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

Exactly, Susi. Even if Sherlock is jealous he won't show it to John because that could hurt him. To be aparted from John is a pain Sherlock is willing to take because he wants to see John being happy.


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July 22, 2015 9:23 am  #14


Re: Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

Now I'm going to cry about how selfless and beautiful Sherlock is.


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July 22, 2015 2:47 pm  #15


Re: Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

I don't think he's "jealous" in the traditional sense because a) he and John don't share the same 'type' of relationship as John shares with Mary (yet!), so there is nothing specifically to be jealous OF in that sense

ah, how I wish that is how it worked! (At least for me) you can totally be jealous of someone that has something you would like, even if you don't have it yet...


Sherlock Holmes wrote:

and b) he has always put John's needs before his own and if John is happy then he will be happy for him.

yes, although, and I'm probably just repeating what has been said before, this has only started to happen after the fall, because before that Sherlock has not always put John's needs first - including when it came to John's sexual/romantic life, since Sherlock didn't like him hooking up with people = he sabotaged his relationships

 

 

July 22, 2015 3:09 pm  #16


Re: Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

Your last point: strictly speaking, this is not true:

Sarah - Sherlock did not manage to destroy the relationship. It continued after the Chinese circus and kidnapping disaster and ended only after John and Sarah had spent some time in New Zealand (I think this is on the blog).
Jeanette - actually John sabotaged this one himself. Jeanette stayed after Sherlock had stormed off to the morgue and only broke up with him after he proved that he could not distinguish between his girlfriends either. 
Louise Mortimer - this was for an investigation but John seemed to like her and Frankland nipped it in the bud by spilling the beans. 

And this is all we get. Not so much for three continents Watson. 
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

July 22, 2015 4:32 pm  #17


Re: Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

Mmm, I think it depends how you see it? Because all three women broke up, or walked away in the case of Louise, because of Sherlock, more or less indirectly. Jeanette for sure - yes John might have put the nail in the coffin but she wasn't stupid - she says it herself - she had to compete with Sherlock for John's attention and she was well aware that she was always going to lose. John trying to fix things by offering to walk her dog just made her walk away faster since it confirmed how little he was invested in their relationship (since he was confusing her with 'the last one').

Louise - she started changing her mind when it was mentioned that John was Sherlock's 'live in' assistant - although she definitely walked away after finding out John 'lied' to get information.

Sarah - yeah, the relationship continued, but I always got the feeling (perhaps from the whole lilo scene) that she knew there was no room for her in the life of a man who hasn't even woken up yet and at the drop of a hat disappears because he's worried about his 'flatmate', instead of, ya know, maybe giving him a call first http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/lol.png

 

 

July 22, 2015 7:53 pm  #18


Re: Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

I partly agree with all of you, but not fully. On the one hand I can understand that Sherlock has changed in a way that allows him to accept his best friend's needs and wishes (to have a wife, to have sex, to have his own family ...). Maybe because of the feelings of guilt and shame after the fall. Maybe because Mary gets something from John that's not necessary or interested for Sherlock (physical closeness). Although I would deny that Sherlock has become that altruistic and selfless that he is able to show no signs of jealousy, but only happiness for John's new bliss. Yeah, ok, he IS sad, esp. at the end of the episode (seeing him walking away like a forlorn soul is really hard!), but that doesn't explain the complete absence of jealousy to me.
Mary, however, does occupy most of John's time and attention, she doesn't leave so much of it to Sherlock (of course not, she and John are becoming a family!). And Sherlock clearly shows sign of jealousy when he finds out that John often talks about Sholto and not so much about him. So, this feeling IS inside him!
For this reason, I still don't get why he isn't jealous of Mary requiring so much of John's love - finally, Sherlocj has to share his best friend now!
 


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July 22, 2015 8:27 pm  #19


Re: Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

I think Mary herself doesn't really get in the way, though.   The problems with the relationship (between Sherlock and John) are more to do with the fall than anything.   I'm not a fan of Mary, but I've got to admit she does seem to help to get them be together, even sending them out on a case.   It's even because of Sherlock's role in the wedding that they're able to say what they feel for each other.   Maybe they wouldn't have quite got there at that time, if it hadn't been for Mary.  I think that Sherlock may well be grateful for that, even if it's mixed with sadness about the likely changes after the wedding (although it seems to be the baby that really drives it home for him, rather than the wedding itself).  Even after the wedding, Sherlock has no problem "recruiting" John again when he wants to. 

I agree that he's quite capable of jealousy, as seen with Sholto, and that means that he's not quite at the point of wholly altruistically wanting John's happiness.   I get no sense of him being pleased for John that Sholto has turned up. 

 

July 22, 2015 8:40 pm  #20


Re: Why isn't Sherlock jealous of Mary?

SusiGo wrote:

Your last point: strictly speaking, this is not true:

Sarah - Sherlock did not manage to destroy the relationship. It continued after the Chinese circus and kidnapping disaster and ended only after John and Sarah had spent some time in New Zealand (I think this is on the blog).
Jeanette - actually John sabotaged this one himself. Jeanette stayed after Sherlock had stormed off to the morgue and only broke up with him after he proved that he could not distinguish between his girlfriends either. 
Louise Mortimer - this was for an investigation but John seemed to like her and Frankland nipped it in the bud by spilling the beans. 

And this is all we get. Not so much for three continents Watson. 
 

I agree. But John (and the majority of Fandom) seem to want to blame Sherlock for anything that goes wrong for John, who couldn't even remember which girlfriend was which! :-)  Sherlock, I think was indeed jealous of Sholto-partly because Mary kinda rubbed that in a bit... 

And, I daresay-- giving up his life at 221B, his career, his reputation to take down Moriarty's Web, thereby saving the lives of John, Mrs. Hudson, and Lestrade-- then planning Mary's Wedding, not prosecuting Mary after she shot him, getting John to go back to the woman who shot him-- killing Magnussen, knowing that his own life was over once he did it-- all those speak volumes about Sherlock's altruism...

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (July 22, 2015 8:45 pm)

 

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