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February 10, 2015 12:21 pm  #1


The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

In some threads there have been discussions about the validity of screenshots. I think this is quite an interesting subject. Please note that I am not just talking about "the looks" and using screenshots as proof for or against Johnlock.
Throughout the show there are many details you can only perceive in screenshots or slo-mo, e.g. the Vitruvian man in John's file or the chemistry equipment in Leinster Gardens. These details have been carefully prepared and put there by the creators of the show. So we have to assume that there is an additional layer of meaning one does not have to perceive in order to understand the plot as such but which can provide a deeper insight into the characters, plot, artistic concept, etc. 

We can collect examples and discuss the creators' ideas if you like. I will start with this one. Fine, we know that Leinster Gardens is one of Sherlock's boltholes. But this pic tells us that he also keeps chemistry equipment and a microscope in there. I never noticed this while watching the episode:

Last edited by SusiGo (February 10, 2015 12:21 pm)


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

February 10, 2015 1:02 pm  #2


Re: The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

Wow, I never saw that!
I would guess it tells us that Sherlock is working even when others think he is just somewhere getting high? I mean, in which times would he spend time there, enough time to come up with experiments?
It also means that maybe before 221b, he lived in a place where he couldn't do his stuff as freely as in 221b later (I had always assumed he would have been at Bart's for this kind of stuff back then...)
Could also mean he doesn't do all his "research" on the kitchen table... maybe he has a kind of responsibility and does the sinister parts somewhere else?


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February 10, 2015 1:09 pm  #3


Re: The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

Wow, that's a lovely detail!


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February 10, 2015 1:14 pm  #4


Re: The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

I agree with all you say, Whisky. And as I said, I never saw it until someone posted it on tumblr. Then I had a look and made my own screenshots. 

For me the most important question is: Do you agree that the creators deliberately use these hidden details that can only be spotted in screenshots? Because there are so many of them. I even know some people who did not get the word "liar" in Sherlock's deduction of Mary. There are jokes hidden in newspapers we only see for a fraction of second, etc., etc. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

February 10, 2015 1:22 pm  #5


Re: The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

The do put in some fantastic details you can only see in screenshots.The danger of that, however, is that people will then be able to find exactly what they want in the show, and be able to use screenshots to prove it. If you go into that much detail, you will be able to prove anything. And with the backup of "but the creators do it", that can be used to support any theory.

Last edited by Vhanja (February 10, 2015 1:22 pm)


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


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February 10, 2015 1:27 pm  #6


Re: The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

But why are the details there if not to be seen and appreciated and interpreted? 
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

February 10, 2015 1:49 pm  #7


Re: The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

I think the details round up the general image.
I don't think they are there to find "new" topics to speculate about, but to emphasize things that are already visible in the show.
I think things like the "liar" description of Mary are just the extra-fun for the very careful watcher, but not necessary to understand the general story plot...
I think it's just a hommage to the viewers who are very eager about the show and take a very close look, also I think it tells about the thoroughness of the creators in doing their job.
I don't know, it's like when you record dialogue with only one person... either you have only one person talking in an empty room, or you have two persons actually act out the dialogue, even if one person doesn't say a word. In the recording it won't show a difference, it's still just one person in front of the camera, but it might just influence the overall feel of it...
I think that is what the details are for. To make the picture complete, even if it doesn't show in the end (I am sure many of the little details in 221b are never in view in the series and will still be decorated each time for interior shots, just in case and for the proper feel)...


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February 10, 2015 1:55 pm  #8


Re: The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

@Vhanja:
I am not sure why people need to "proof" things at all. The creators of a show celebrate their very own story... it can never be the same story we see. It's like reading... we are biased, we react in our very own ways to stuff.
So the whole concept of "proof", to me, is dubious.
I have read many books where the writer said "yeah I wanted to convey this and that" and I thought: "what the hell, I never got that. BUT, I got this and that and all that instead"... does this mean I got the book wrong? Does it mean I should adapt what the writer intended? Or does it mean that the writer wrote an excellent book that was so many-layered that it spoke to me in a very specific way the writer hadn't even imagined?
I have the firm belief that a writer needs to let go of a successfull book in terms of interpretation. If a writer cannot handle different interpretation, he shouldn't publish the book. In the best case, he or she would engage with the readers in an excited manner.
And I think the same is true for movies and TV series.
But that is my own opinion, of course.
What I don't mean to imply is that I don't take the creators of a show serious. But if some creators call their works their child, then that is just the process of a child growing up and getting its own life - in the interaction with the audience.
And if they do a very good job, the interpretation of most of their audience will match their intents... but that's not necessarily happening every time.

Last edited by Whisky (February 10, 2015 1:58 pm)


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February 10, 2015 2:00 pm  #9


Re: The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

Vhanja wrote:

The danger of that, however, is that people will then be able to find exactly what they want in the show

I think that's not a danger, but a priviledge of good writing. (although the word "want" feels a bit wrong here)

And there is this saying, I don't know the english translation, but basically: you see what you're looking for.
If you're looking for Johnlock, you see it. If you don't look for it, you don't. (Taking Johnlock as the most popular example.) That's good writing I think, and I think that's what's happening with our Sherlock series. Starting to collect "proof" is like taking the possibilites out of a show and making it a one way track, and I think it will loose most of it's genius on the way there.

So even if there is a word "liar" attached to Mary, that's still very vague. It could refer to so many things. The way the story continues makes us think that it's a very special hint - but it's also interpretation. Lying when? To whom? It could totally concern her past. It could mean many things. We think it means her past, or John, or the people round her, but we only do that because we maybe feel the story goes there. We don't have to.
That's what I mean with the good storytelling - when we come to the same conclusions as the writers, they did a good job. If there are other possibilities for explanation and interpretation still open, they did an even better job. Imo.

Sorry that I got a bit passionate about this :/
 

Last edited by Whisky (February 10, 2015 2:09 pm)


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"It is what it is."

 

February 10, 2015 2:05 pm  #10


Re: The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

Whisky wrote:

Vhanja wrote:

The danger of that, however, is that people will then be able to find exactly what they want in the show

I think that's not a danger, but a priviledge of good writing. (although the word "want" feels a bit wrong here)

 

Oh, very well said, Whisky. 
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

February 10, 2015 3:10 pm  #11


Re: The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

No, what I mean is - you can find proof for anything you want there to be in the show. Proof that your interpretation was put in there by the creators of the show.


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

February 10, 2015 3:12 pm  #12


Re: The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

Vhanja wrote:

No, what I mean is - you can find proof for anything you want there to be in the show. Proof that your interpretation was put in there by the creators of the show.

Yes, I understand.
I just think the concept of doing so is not very useful.

It would only serve the use to convince others that your own interpretation is the "right" one - because it matches the one of the creators, because it's the "originally intended" one. In my opinion such an approach misses the point in appreciating a well written show.
That's why I don't really bother about people doing so.

(that's, btw, also the reason I'm not so very fond of some Johnlock threads, but I believe "each to his own" is a good concept)
 

Last edited by Whisky (February 10, 2015 3:21 pm)


_____________________________________________________________

"It is what it is."

 

February 11, 2015 6:25 pm  #13


Re: The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

Vhanja wrote:

No, what I mean is - you can find proof for anything you want there to be in the show. Proof that your interpretation was put in there by the creators of the show.

But that does depend on the detail, doesn't it? You can't prove everything with any given detail.
For example, I don't think that you can prove Johnlock with the screenshot Susi posted in her first post.
But maybe I just don't get what you mean. Because the way I understand it, you're basically saying that too many details are bad because with them you... can prove stuff?
In my opinion details are there to be discovered, discussed and analysed. The casual audience won't notice them, but fans will (although I'm convinced that some details will stay hidden forever). And some of them might mean nothing, they might just have been included for the fun of it or because they made a set look more complete. And yes, it's probably true that some people nevertheless will want to use them to prove something. But why is that bad? You can always try to disprove them by giving convincing arguments.
 


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February 11, 2015 6:32 pm  #14


Re: The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

I agree with everything you say, Solar. We can use screenshots to substantiate our theories - about Johnlock, about Sherlock's boltholes, about foreshadowing (Barts hospital mentioned in a newspaper long before we see Sherlock's fall) and so on. Which is a wonderful thing.

And please, please - the show is carefully planned, especially with regard to the whole production design. I am very sure there is no coincidence in the work of Arwel Wyn Jones and his team. Or those of the other people who create to show for us. So why not discuss these details? They were put there for us, this is how they work. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

February 11, 2015 6:34 pm  #15


Re: The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

Think of the Where's Waldo books.

You can have fun just finding Waldo in each picture.

However, if you want to delve deeper the paintings are just chock full of interesting details to be found,.
You don't have to look for them but it can be a lot of fun and give you a richer understanding of the work.


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February 11, 2015 6:39 pm  #16


Re: The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

Nice comparison. I had so much fun with my kids searching the pictures. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

February 11, 2015 8:45 pm  #17


Re: The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

SolarSystem wrote:

Vhanja wrote:

No, what I mean is - you can find proof for anything you want there to be in the show. Proof that your interpretation was put in there by the creators of the show.

But that does depend on the detail, doesn't it? You can't prove everything with any given detail.
For example, I don't think that you can prove Johnlock with the screenshot Susi posted in her first post.
But maybe I just don't get what you mean. Because the way I understand it, you're basically saying that too many details are bad because with them you... can prove stuff?
In my opinion details are there to be discovered, discussed and analysed. The casual audience won't notice them, but fans will (although I'm convinced that some details will stay hidden forever). And some of them might mean nothing, they might just have been included for the fun of it or because they made a set look more complete. And yes, it's probably true that some people nevertheless will want to use them to prove something. But why is that bad? You can always try to disprove them by giving convincing arguments.
 

No, details are not bad. Details are awesome. People using those details to prove their own over-analyzing theories are not necessarily that good.

Why it's bad? Well, if people convince themselves that this or that will happen in the show because they think they can prove it in the details. And then their theory doesn't happen, and they blame the writers for it. That's what I think is bad.


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

February 11, 2015 8:54 pm  #18


Re: The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

And when did that happen in connection with theories derived from screenshots?
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

February 11, 2015 8:56 pm  #19


Re: The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

SusiGo wrote:

And when did that happen in connection with theories derived from screenshots?
 

I don't know. I'm just saying that I've seen people be so convinced that their theory is right, and using (amongst others) screenshots to prove it, that I think it's something worth keeping in mind. Because you can prove anything with screenshots, it's therefore the least reliable proof of any theory.

But it IS awesome to find hidden details, like the one shown in this thread!


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

February 11, 2015 9:00 pm  #20


Re: The meaning of screenshots - pros and cons

I see what you mean but it is not limited to screenshots. Many people were disappointed when Sherlock turned more emotional and fallible in series 3 and blamed the writers. I think this always happens when people get attached to a show and do not wish certain things to happen. 

Yes, there are many wonderful details. And people still keep finding more. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

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