BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012.


You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



February 4, 2015 10:10 am  #1


Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

Slightly odd title there, but bear with me.

Whether you believe in Johnlock or not, there is no doubt that the show is presenting Sherlock and John as the best of friends. That is the foundation of the entire series. With that in mind, I find it a bit off to see how little we actually see the two of them enjoying each other's company. Or perhaps I should say - how rarely John seem to enjoy Sherlock's company.

I feel that the scenes between Sherlock and John can be divided into these four (broad) categories:

1. Neutral talk about cases
2. Action-scenes (with or without one of them saving the other)
3. Sharing a smile and enjoying themselves
4. John being annoyed/angry/hurt/provoked/pissed/fed up with Sherlock

And this thread is about category no 4. Because in my opinion, the majority of the scenes throughout the series that involves Sherlock and John I feel falls into that category. And the amount of scenes that fall into category 3 is staggering small.

If you rewatch the series, you can start counting how many scenes would fall into each of these categories, and you might be surprised. ASiP is more or less the only episode I can think of that shows the two of them actually enjoying each other's company. It's talked so much about how Sherlock and John love to have each other on cases, but as the saying goes - "show, don't tell". We see it in ASiP, which I think is done because it's the first episode so they are introducing the parametres and the characters. Then it's more or less forgotten about and we are left with a Sherlock that takes John for granted and a John who can hardly go a single scene without sighing, looking annoyed or being insulted by Sherlock in every.single.episode. 

We don't get to see anything like it again until TEH, where we get to see how they both dislike being apart from each other. But I feel there is a great many more scenes in cat. 4 than in cat. 3. And that leaves me a bit baffled as to how these two guys are supposed to be such close friends. I know that they are, because I've been told they are so many times. And we have a handful of scenes that are either very heroic or very emotional to underline it. But apart from that, it's hard for me to see it.

Keep in mind I am not talking about hugs, declaration of friendship and fluffy unicorns. I'm talking about what we see in ASiP - the two of them smiling, relaxing, having fun. Showing that they enjoy themselves in each other's company.

Last edited by Vhanja (February 4, 2015 10:15 am)


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

February 4, 2015 10:59 am  #2


Re: Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

I'm a johnlocker and the way I see it this the generic miscommunication/ misunderstanding element of a typical romance story. 

Something happened in Sherlock's past that made him think low of emotions/love. Also most probably his past has made him think that he is virtually unlovable. So he has built his lifestyle around rationality, science etc. and has even gone to proclaim himself as a high-functioning sociopath- someone who doesn’t need emotion and love. Unfortunately his bitterness and disdain for people less expert in his craft keeps people from forming healthy relations with him and in turn reinforces his worldview. So he is really surprised when John behaves like a friendly person and even a friend and not just a flatmate. He even openly praises his deductions which is not what poeple normally say to Sherlock. Anyways, old habits die hard so Sherlock can't just stop being what he supposedly was for most of his adult life. Moreover when Sherlock's reluctant associates lurk (Donovan) around his potential friends, there is bound to be misunderstandings. So like many of the viewers, John accepts that Sherlock is what he portrays himself to be. Meanwhile the way I see it, John is someone who has trust issues and has a fear of rejection. So after Sherlock tells John that he is flattered by John's [romantic] interest in him but is really not looking for any kind of [relationship?], he lets it drop lest his prodding make Sherlock think less of him. Anyways, Sherlock deduced in the first episode that John likes danger and adventure so he thought that he is interested in Sherlock mainly for his profession. So you can see the reason their miscommunication is so bad is because it feeds off each other’s. John can’t handle seeing Sherlock be how he so desperately wants him to be if it’s not real (and well Sherlock doesn’t help matters, does he?), so he shuts Sherlock down when Sherlock tries to open up (ex: THoB, funny doesn’t suit you, let’s stick with ice), which makes Sherlock think John only likes Sociopath-Danger-Genius Sherlock, which makes him all the more determined to continue to be like that so that John will stay interested, which makes John sure that Sherlock really is like that, which makes him unwilling/unable to see it when Sherlock tries open up because he can’t let himself think it’s real… you see the problem. And so the leads' mental gymnastics to avoid seeing the obvious creates some very frustrating conversation like: "Moriarty is playing with your mind too. CAN'T YOU SEE WHAT'S GOING ON?"; "Im your best friend??"; "He's Sherlock, who'd he bother protecting"

Anyways, that's is a very short summary of the epic missommunication between them. If anyone's interested someone analyzed Sherlock from a writers perspective and here it's analyzed in detail how the structure of Sherlock matches the style of a romance story and how the miscommunication between the leads is being used as an obstacle for actualizing the romance and source of character development. It's not overly full of jargon and takes the whole show so far into consideration.

I also liked the authors' detailed analysis of Sherlock's character.

Last edited by tykobrian (February 4, 2015 11:41 am)


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Series arc of Sherlock | Clues to #johnlock being endgame | My fav Sherlock blog
 

February 4, 2015 11:24 am  #3


Re: Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

I think the scenes in cat. 4 prevail purely for dramatic reasons. Domesticity between Sherlock and John is heavily hinted at mostly at the beginning or at the end of the episodes (for example, at the beginning of TRF, at the end of TEH, through most of TSOT, in some scenes in SiB, some scenes of HOTB). But in the episodes itself, the action centers around dramatic conflicts of deeds and of conscience - and those deeds and moral dilemmas bring with it the disagreements that divide Sherlock and John momentarily, only to unite them together again at the end of the episode.

It has to do with the structure of the Western storytelling, which heavily centers on conflict.

Different cultures would probably be able to write the story in the smoother, different way:

http://stilleatingoranges.tumblr.com/post/25153960313/the-significance-of-plot-without-conflict
 

Last edited by nakahara (February 4, 2015 11:26 am)


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

February 4, 2015 1:46 pm  #4


Re: Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

Interesting issue. It is true that they bicker quire often, but I always thought that was just the kind of relationship they have. Pretty much all of my great friendships are quite bickery and - here comes one for the Johnlockers - most functioning long term relationships I know are like that, too. Not necessary when lots of other people are around, but with people which you can truly be yourself, sure.
I feel we still get plenty of scenes where we are made privy to a very understanding/ trusting/ fun relationship. Without re-watching anything for that purpose I can name: John coming along to the crime scene, chasing after cars only to succumb to giggle fits at Baker Street, Sherlock curing John’s limp, John’s loyalty towards Sherlock when confronted with Mycroft, John’s understanding that Sherlock is in trouble when he leaves with the cabbie, Sherlock understanding John is the one who safes him and giggling at the crime scene in ASIP, sharing credit/bank cards in TBB, The whole Buckingham Palace /ashtray thing, parts of the Christmas scene and John worrying over a depressed Sherlock in ASIB, the beginning and the very very end of THOB, beginning of TRF, missing each other and giggling in the tube as well as the end of TEH, pretty much all of TSOT, John’s reaction to Mycroft’s threat and Sherlock’s giggle at that, Sherlock “recruiting” John, going to CAM’s helicopter in HLV (not counting the good-bye scene, because that felt weird to me, but that’s for another thread).
I disagree btw that Sherlock has trouble forming and maintaining functional relationships. I feel he just rarely makes the effort. Even before he meets John he has a very loving relationship with Mrs. Hudson and Lestrade and him seem also close, but as of THOB he does not categorises those relationships as “friendships”, though in TRF we learn they are incredibly important to him. He is rough-edged, but the people he chooses to let into his life are usually quite good to in dealing with that and see the big heart behind his intimidating bearings. I would like to include Molly here, but by the time Sherlock meets John he still seems to be a bit abusive with her. Later we are shown she can parry him in her own way, despite her “little crush”, but I’m not sure if this was already the case before John showed up.
 I agree with nakahara that the fact that we see relatively little domestic bliss between the two has properly to do with that conflict is thought to be more interesting and therefore more worth showing than Sherlock and John making tea for each other, watching crap telly, ordering take-out or trying to figure out how one is supposed to make risotto.

 


****************************************************************************************************************************************
We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.    
 

February 4, 2015 1:55 pm  #5


Re: Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

Interestingly, Lola Red, a great portion of the examples you mention are from ASiP, the one episode where we see exactly that. And when it was mentioned earlier that John shuts down when Sherlock tries to open up, I see the exact opposite, never clearer than in ASiB. That is the episode where John really makes an effort to be a really good friend (his girlfriend broke up with him because of it, he missed a planned Christmas with Harry and he tried constantly to be there and be supportive for Sherlock), but he got nothing in return. That was the one episode over all where Sherlock shut him out. It's a bit painful to watch, I have to admit.

I'm not necessarily talking about domestic bliss, this isn't a show about cooking and watching tv. And the kind of enjoyment we see in ASiP isn't about that either - it's about them enjoying themselves on a case. (And, yes, the ashtray scene is the same type of scene in ASiB, good example).

But if you go through the series and count the number of scenes in each category, there are so few in no 4 compared to no 3 and the rest, that it's amazing how we can even see these guys as close as we do. To be honest, the only thing that makes me reluctant to rewatch the series is the constant annoyance. Because it's not about friendly bickering, it's John being - constantly - put out, annoyed, offended or fed up with Sherlock. All the time. It's not two mates having a go at each other, it's one mate annoying the living he** out of the other, on a daily basis. 


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
     Thread Starter
 

February 4, 2015 2:30 pm  #6


Re: Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

I see most of John’s remarks as still coming from a loving place, more of a rough version of “father is humming again, he needs a little poke to stop it”(HLV). There are times when he seems seriously upset and fed up with Sherlock e.g. when Sherlock shoots the wall or fails to show empathy with the victims in TGG or a presumably shot and dying Mrs. Hudson in TRF and long stretched of TEH as well as the 221b scene from HLV. But these seem to fall into a whole other category than all the versions of “can you not do the we-both-know-what’s-going-on-face/ smiling when we’re dealing with kidnapped children/ the showing-off thing with your coat collar and your cheekbones”.
But I am curious: From your point of view: do you think it is more a case of John being annoyed with Sherlock or Sherlock annoying John? Not to take sides or bashing either of the characters, just as where do you think the annoyance comes from.

edit: (About the John caring for a depressed Sherlock in ASIB: I feel they both have a very particular way of dealing with emotions, so a heart-to-heart would have been very surprising for me. I think Sherlock’s “I hope you did not mess up my sock index this time” is as close as he could get to saying “I see what you are doing here (and I might even appreciate it)”. I feel the fact that Sherlock’s little trick in the tube in HLV actually works for these two is very telling about how they deal with each other’s emotions in a crisis. They can only have an honest (very short) conversation about it “I asked you for one more miracle, I asked you to stop being dead.” – “I heard you” once everything is over.)
 

Last edited by Lola Red (February 4, 2015 2:52 pm)


****************************************************************************************************************************************
We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.    
 

February 4, 2015 2:34 pm  #7


Re: Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

I personally think that John gets honestly upset and annoyed by Sherlock's behavior towards him. When Sherlock humiliates him in front of others, belittles him, ignores him and in other way treats John in a way no decent person ever would. And that is, understandably, annoying. Because it happens again and again and again and... to me, that is something that diminishes their relationship to me. How can you enjoy being around someone who constantly belittles you, humiliates you and ignores you? 


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
     Thread Starter
 

February 4, 2015 2:43 pm  #8


Re: Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

Poor John. He obviously has no free will to stand up and find himself a new flat, if he finds his situation so unbearable. I guess Sherlock´s bad influence extends to hypnotic compulsion that subconsciously influences John and prevents him to leave.

And of course, it´s all Sherlock´s fault, that John´s Christmas date crashed. John forgetting which one of his girlfriends owns a dog has nothing to do with it.

Also, if his girlfriend was so important to John, was it absolutely inconcievable for him to go after her, apologise again, make her listen? Oh no - it was certainly Sherlock´s hypnotic influence again at play.


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

February 4, 2015 2:59 pm  #9


Re: Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

Lola Red wrote:

I disagree btw that Sherlock has trouble forming and maintaining functional relationships. I feel he just rarely makes the effort. Even before he meets John he has a very loving relationship with Mrs. Hudson and Lestrade and him seem also close, but as of THOB he does not categorises those relationships as “friendships”, though in TRF we learn they are incredibly important to him. He is rough-edged, but the people he chooses to let into his life are usually quite good to in dealing with that and see the big heart behind his intimidating bearings. I would like to include Molly here, but by the time Sherlock meets John he still seems to be a bit abusive with her. Later we are shown she can parry him in her own way, despite her “little crush”, but I’m not sure if this was already the case before John showed up.

 

I disagree with this. We heard Lestrade telling that after 5 years he still doesn't know Sherlock - it doesn't seem to me that apart from the cases and drug busts they have something in common. He cannot even remember the name of Lestrade - while with John he is very soon on the first name.

We see what a catastrophe is the Christmas party and how annoyed is Sherlock, even when apart form John's girlfriend all the other people are his acquaintance ( i bet that the party was not his idea).  He doesn't go to John's birthday celebration (while Lestrade not even goes, but he makes Sherlock do a message for John).

As i see Sherlock in S1 and S2, Sherlock is not able to form and mentain real relationships apart from Mrs. Hudson and John. The other are able to put with him and accept him as he is, they are the one looking to know him better and to have contact with him apart of professional relationships. IMO Sherlock is social awkward, he has very oft no idea how upsetting the things he says are for  the other. And here comes John role, to guide him in what is good and "a bit not good". Things start to change in S3, but he has still a way to go. 

 

 

February 4, 2015 3:03 pm  #10


Re: Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

Vhanja wrote:

I personally think that John gets honestly upset and annoyed by Sherlock's behavior towards him. When Sherlock humiliates him in front of others, belittles him, ignores him and in other way treats John in a way no decent person ever would. And that is, understandably, annoying. Because it happens again and again and again and... to me, that is something that diminishes their relationship to me. How can you enjoy being around someone who constantly belittles you, humiliates you and ignores you? 

I always had the feeling that John is very well able to roll with the punches and fire back whenever necessary, or make sure Sherlock knows when he really overstepped the line. They are not terribly gentle with each other, but it seems to me like a fairly balanced relationship that they both seem to enjoy in the long run.

Last edited by Lola Red (February 4, 2015 4:00 pm)


****************************************************************************************************************************************
We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.    
 

February 4, 2015 3:08 pm  #11


Re: Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

A lovely light wrote:

As i see Sherlock in S1 and S2, Sherlock is not able to form and mentain real relationships apart from Mrs. Hudson and John.
 

But by the same criteria John is social awkward too. He has Mary, maybe Mrs. Hudson and... who? Most of his other acquantances - with the exception of Stamford - come through his associations with Sherlock. He avoids his own sister. Most of his friends allegedly "hate" him....

According to this, John´s social skills are even crapier than Sherlock´s....

I also don´t believe that Sherlock would be somehow "bettered" by becoming social conformist. Yes, other people would be pleased - but it would destroy him as an individual.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread853630/pg1

"Conformity only happens when one isn't sure of their sense of self. Once the sense of true self is understood, you stand up for what you believe. I don't care how many people are around, I won't wavier the way I believe simply because others are doing it or believe the opposite. That's to blindly follow, and can never lead anywhere YOU wanted to go anyways, so why bother?"

Last edited by nakahara (February 4, 2015 3:27 pm)


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

February 4, 2015 3:27 pm  #12


Re: Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

Many interesting things have been said here. Let me want to sum up my views:

- All this makey far more sense if you regard the narrative as a complicated romance instead of a buddy/friendship story. 

- John is a very strong character. I really do not like people saying he lets Sherlock treat him like a doormat. Just look at the scene in TGG when he walks out and Sherlock looks after him from the window. This is not a man who lets anyone trample over him. 

- Sherlock and John are BOTH socially difficult characters. Just think of Many Happy Returns, Sherlock's "study" about John's friends hating him. Of course this is done for comic erffect but it also sheds a light on John basically being a loner. And then there is the wedding where exactly one old friend of John's is present and no family at all. 

And this is why I think that they perfectly complement each other. They are not friendly or polite or caring in the conventional sense but they have saved each others lives in many different ways and basically cannot live without each other.  They respect each others skills and appreciate the things no one else likes about them (need for danger, intrusive deductions, etc.). Their difficulties in dealing with emotions present an obstacle which yet has to be overcome. And, yes, I think one might call this a love story. 

Last edited by SusiGo (February 4, 2015 3:30 pm)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

February 4, 2015 3:35 pm  #13


Re: Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

I do agree that John is not the kind of type to be a doormat. And he has is own issues as well, I've always said the two of them have a slightly dysfunctional relationship because they both have emotional issues.

I'm not sure I see how this makes more sense if it's a budding romantic relationship, though. That would in a way be worse, if that is how you treat your partner.

I just struggle with watching how John gets treated, and how he seems to spend the majoirty of his time with Sherlock being constantly annoyed by the other man's treatment. That is something that for me comes in the way of their relationship, however you want to view that relationship. 


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
     Thread Starter
 

February 4, 2015 3:41 pm  #14


Re: Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

Just one quick question, Vhanja: How come you believe that "Eventually everyone will support Johnlock" if you are so annoyed by the way in which their friendship is portrayed? I don't mean this in a negative way, I'm just curious because I don't get it.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

February 4, 2015 3:43 pm  #15


Re: Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

SolarSystem wrote:

Just one quick question, Vhanja: How come you believe that "Eventually everyone will support Johnlock" if you are so annoyed by the way in which their friendship is portrayed? I don't mean this in a negative way, I'm just curious because I don't get it.

For me, that was a in-board joke. I'm getting a bit tired of having to defend my signature, is that really necessary? I'll delete it if that seems to make people struggle for whatever reason.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
     Thread Starter
 

February 4, 2015 3:49 pm  #16


Re: Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

Personally, I believe, that both men want to be in a friendly (or more) relationship with each other, because both get exactly what they want from it. I think they enjoy bickering and cat-and-dog fake arguments but they would die for each other, as they already proved in the story. And even if their relationship looks incomprehensible/abusive/weid to the ooutside world, they are both content with it. Otherwise they would leave each other to find better company somewhwere else.


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

February 4, 2015 3:51 pm  #17


Re: Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

Vhanja wrote:

SolarSystem wrote:

Just one quick question, Vhanja: How come you believe that "Eventually everyone will support Johnlock" if you are so annoyed by the way in which their friendship is portrayed? I don't mean this in a negative way, I'm just curious because I don't get it.

For me, that was a in-board joke. I'm getting a bit tired of having to defend my signature, is that really necessary? I'll delete it if that seems to make people struggle for whatever reason.

Where did I ask you to defend it?
It's just that from my point of view Johnlock wouldn't make a whole lot of sense if I saw John as a character that repeatedly gets badly treated by Sherlock and also, if there wasn't any scenes in the show (apart from the ones in ASiP) where you can see them enjoying each other's company. I see such scenes in every episode, may it be John pulling rank in THoB and Sherlock smiling about it to himself... or Sherlock stealing an ashtray just because John mentioned this before in ASiB... there are many more.
But you really seem to be annoyed with their relationship, so for me it's a very far stretch to Johnlock from there.
 


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

February 4, 2015 3:54 pm  #18


Re: Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

I didn't say there weren't any such scenes. I said that there seemed to be much more of the other type of scenes, the ones where John is more or less constantly annoyed by how Sherlock behaves. And that made me ponder a bit, because I find it to be a slightly odd writer decision when you are portraying one of the best friendship stories there is.

What I feel and think about Johnlock isn't really relevant in this thread. 


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
     Thread Starter
 

February 4, 2015 3:59 pm  #19


Re: Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

A lovely light wrote:

I disagree with this. We heard Lestrade telling that after 5 years he still doesn't know Sherlock - it doesn't seem to me that apart from the cases and drug busts they have something in common. He cannot even remember the name of Lestrade - while with John he is very soon on the first name.

We see what a catastrophe is the Christmas party and how annoyed is Sherlock, even when apart form John's girlfriend all the other people are his acquaintance ( i bet that the party was not his idea).  He doesn't go to John's birthday celebration (while Lestrade not even goes, but he makes Sherlock do a message for John).

As i see Sherlock in S1 and S2, Sherlock is not able to form and mentain real relationships apart from Mrs. Hudson and John. The other are able to put with him and accept him as he is, they are the one looking to know him better and to have contact with him apart of professional relationships. IMO Sherlock is social awkward, he has very oft no idea how upsetting the things he says are for  the other. And here comes John role, to guide him in what is good and "a bit not good". Things start to change in S3, but he has still a way to go. 

 

I do not say that in John Sherlock has not found his soul mate (you might read into this whatever you wish). Lestrade does not say he does not know Sherlock at all, he says he does not know him better than John does, but than John has a very special connection with Sherlock. I think everyone around him can see that John has a great stabilising influence on him and that they have an once-in-a-lifetime connection from the very first moment they meet. Mrs. Hudson sees it, Lestrade sees it, even Donovan sees it. But I feel that also Sherlock and Lestrade have a history and a connection. Especially in ASIP Lestrade seems almost, I don’t know, fatherly(?). From his attitude during the drugs bust it seemed to me that he knew Sherlock when he was still an addict. Donovan’s remark that Sherlock “will always let you [Lestrade] down”, seems to be quite personal and I cannot really imagine Sherlock letting Lestrade down on a case, so it seems to be something more private. Maybe Lestade had seen Sherlock relapse repeatedly into his drugs habit until he finally managed to stay clean and took it hard enough to make Donovan hold a grudge.

For the “catastrophe” of  a Christmas party, I got the feeling that Sherlock main problem was the fact that is was Christmas (neither he nor Mycroft seem to be great fans of this particular holyday). He seems perfectly content when pretty much the same group of people sits in 221b at the end of TEH. As for celebrations with other people that those he has chosen to connect to: he seems to be notorious for not getting along with them or behaving odd. It is so obvious that Molly, Lestrade and Mrs. Hudson are discussing that fact when he is asked to be best man. But if one believes that Sherlock is able to form friendships with John, Molly, Lestrade and Mrs. Hudson, than his odd behaviour towards other people is born out of a lack of interest, not a lack of ability.
 
I agree that he lets himself by guided by John in some situations, when he gets swept away by other things (usually cases). But as long as he concentrates, he does quite well with reading people. He even knows sentiment when he sees it and can be incredibly charming when he wishes to be.

I enjoy discussing this with you, but I’m not sure this is the place for it, so if you want to go into all of this a bit more I suggest we take that discussion elsewhere (or Vhanja has to be ok with it continuing here).
 

Last edited by Lola Red (February 4, 2015 4:05 pm)


****************************************************************************************************************************************
We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.    
 

February 4, 2015 4:02 pm  #20


Re: Sherlock and John - level of annoyance in the show

I would love to discuss Sherlock's character more, that is the one thing I haven't done on this board yet, but perhaps in a different thread?


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
     Thread Starter
 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum