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July 26, 2015 7:24 am  #21


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

Dorothy83 wrote:

John lugging a baby on the crime scene and Lestrade rolling his eyes and complaining? NO. NO. I would definitely, definitely not interested in a show where John has to juggle a baby in order to do what he's supposed to (which is go on adventures with Sherlock) 

What´s more, John in this show is supposed to be a "voice of common reason" and a foil to Sherlock´s excentricity and slight irresponsibility. I can´t picture this John being so stupid and irresponsible as to carry a baby to a potentially dangerous crime-site and complicate some criminal investigation with it. It would be very OOC, I think.
 


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July 26, 2015 8:23 am  #22


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

John can be just as reckless as Sherlock. (So...are we actually discussing what the original poster suggested or do we keep complaining about Mary? I would like to do the former.....there are already so many threats for the latter).

I just imagined a scene in which Sherlock turns up and John is all eager and Sherlock is all: Actually, I need Mary's talents this time around...there is this girl in this big house which might need help (yeah, still with the Copper Beeches), can you help me to break in?

Last edited by Swanpride (July 26, 2015 8:35 am)

 

July 26, 2015 8:31 am  #23


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

John then returns to Afghanistan because, obviously, he has no further use in the story (except babysitting) now that Mary has been added as the new Sherlock´s assistant.


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

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July 26, 2015 8:36 am  #24


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

The show certainly survived Molly taking John's place for a while...it was perhaps the best part of TEH.

 

July 26, 2015 8:46 am  #25


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

Okay, I assume Mary lives in S4. For me personally this can only work this way:
Make yourself comfy at the backseat, milady. Let the two main characters do their work. ( with assistance by adorable side characters). Don't run after them, don't treat them like they suddenly cannot manhandle anything anymore. Don't hurt them in any way. Or you go the full way to be a great, charismatic and really scary next villain.
Thank you 


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July 26, 2015 10:52 am  #26


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

nakahara wrote:

John then returns to Afghanistan because, obviously, he has no further use in the story (except babysitting) now that Mary has been added as the new Sherlock´s assistant.

Right.

I personally don't care that the show survived Molly taking John's place (and I'd like to underline that that wasn't because of Sherlock's choice - as in, would he have done it had John not been in a fight with him? NOPE).

If it really turns up that Sherlock tells John that he doesn't need him on the case but Mary, I will not be interested in this show anymore. I just wanted to say that - and I apologise because you aren't interested in what I will do and that's fair enough http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


I just can't even contemplate the show if we assume that Mary stays, so I'll leave this topic so I don't spoil the fun!

 

July 26, 2015 11:06 am  #27


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

Yeah, I also have to admit that all this "family stuff" and Sherlock suddenly taking care of a baby and becoming the weird but lovely "uncle" isn't part of my imagination that I have of the development of the show ... I totally agree with Dorothy83 that a drunk Sherlock was funny indeed - for these 5 or 10 minutes in the show, but then it was done. I still want to see a Sherlock who is ambivalent, who's suspicious und often rude towards people and mankind in general, who uses his brilliant genius to dedect whatever is possible. But I definately don't want to see him become "softer" and a family guy - that would be OOC!
Although I can also understand you, Swanpride! I really can't figure how Moftiss will handle with the fact that Mary is pregnant and will - obviously, probably - have a baby in S4. But I do hope they won't turn Sherlock into a family man!


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July 26, 2015 11:47 am  #28


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

I could see Mary being involved in a particular case.   John's partnership with Sherlock is really about his personality rather than any specialist knowledge or skills (although his background does sometimes come in useful).   Mary does have specialist knowledge and skills which might be useful in certain situations.  Sherlock could involve her in a consultant role, but she could also come out investigating with him.  I think that could fit with the characters, and might work for a one-off case.  It's not something I particularly want to see, but it wouldn't stop me watching (although I do hope they would make Sherlock the clever one, and not have Mary patronise him or treat him like a child).  The writers have said all along that the show centres on Sherlock and John's friendship, so I don't see it changing over to being a threesome, even if Mary stays around. 

The baby doesn't have to feature much.  Some professional people have live in nannies or au pairs, so it might be that both John and Mary are free to disappear at short notice, knowing the baby is safe.  But I imagine that if the writers are going to introduce a baby then there has to be some sort of peril involving the baby at some point.  I don't see her being just there for comedy.

Last edited by Liberty (July 26, 2015 1:15 pm)

 

July 26, 2015 12:41 pm  #29


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

The suggestion was not that Mary takes John's place in a particular case, but that Sherlock turns up and requests Mary's special skills to John's ire.
I don't see Sherlock as a family man either, but I can totally see him making funny assumptions about babies or point out nonsensical stuff parents do (why have a birthday party for a baby? It's one year old, it's not able to remember it!) while still being protective of Watson Junior.

 

July 26, 2015 7:23 pm  #30


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

mrshouse wrote:

Okay, I assume Mary lives in S4. For me personally this can only work this way:
Make yourself comfy at the backseat, milady. Let the two main characters do their work. ( with assistance by adorable side characters). Don't run after them, don't treat them like they suddenly cannot manhandle anything anymore. Don't hurt them in any way. Or you go the full way to be a great, charismatic and really scary next villain.
Thank you

Yes, yes and, once again, YES. This.
Although I actually can't imagine her being a charismatic villain. A villain, maybe, but charismatic...? She'd have to change considerably for that. And I'm not saying that this is something Mofftiss couldn't pull off, but I'm quite sceptical.
 


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July 27, 2015 12:16 pm  #31


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

I'm actually not sure whether Mary WILL die in S4 or not, given Moffat's recent comments, but even if she doesn't die, I think she will definitely leave the boys' lives forever.

Her past will catch up with her and she will be forced to go into hiding (witness protection). John will insist that she takes the baby with her because the kid will be safer with Mary in her new life than with John and Sherlock in their continually dangerous life and with the criminals now coming after them.

There will be an emotional and tearful goodbye at the airport, with John knowing he will never see either of them again.


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July 27, 2015 12:17 pm  #32


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

I'm actually not sure whether Mary WILL die in S4 or not, given Moffat's recent comments, but even if she doesn't die, I think she will definitely leave the boys' lives forever.

Her past will catch up with her and she will be forced to go into hiding (witness protection). John will insist that she takes the baby with her because the kid will be safer with Mary in her new life than with John and Sherlock in their continually dangerous life and with the criminals now coming after them.

There will be an emotional and tearful goodbye at the airport, with John knowing he will never see either of them again.

 
Oh, I really really don't want that.  I don't want heartbroken John.  :-(


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July 27, 2015 4:37 pm  #33


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

tonnaree wrote:

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

I'm actually not sure whether Mary WILL die in S4 or not, given Moffat's recent comments, but even if she doesn't die, I think she will definitely leave the boys' lives forever.

Her past will catch up with her and she will be forced to go into hiding (witness protection). John will insist that she takes the baby with her because the kid will be safer with Mary in her new life than with John and Sherlock in their continually dangerous life and with the criminals now coming after them.

There will be an emotional and tearful goodbye at the airport, with John knowing he will never see either of them again.

 
Oh, I really really don't want that.  I don't want heartbroken John.  :-(

but why would they repeat the 'goodbye at the airport' scene?
 

 

July 27, 2015 8:30 pm  #34


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

Dorothy83 wrote:

tonnaree wrote:

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

I'm actually not sure whether Mary WILL die in S4 or not, given Moffat's recent comments, but even if she doesn't die, I think she will definitely leave the boys' lives forever.

Her past will catch up with her and she will be forced to go into hiding (witness protection). John will insist that she takes the baby with her because the kid will be safer with Mary in her new life than with John and Sherlock in their continually dangerous life and with the criminals now coming after them.

There will be an emotional and tearful goodbye at the airport, with John knowing he will never see either of them again.

 
Oh, I really really don't want that.  I don't want heartbroken John.  :-(

but why would they repeat the 'goodbye at the airport' scene?
 

Because they love symmetry in this show.

John at Sherlock's grave
John & Mary at Sherlock's grave

John & Mary saying goodbye to Sherlock
John & Sherlock saying goodbye to Mary.
 


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July 27, 2015 9:52 pm  #35


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

Mary shooting Sherlock
John shooting Mary

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"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

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July 27, 2015 10:04 pm  #36


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Dorothy83 wrote:

tonnaree wrote:


 
Oh, I really really don't want that.  I don't want heartbroken John.  :-(

but why would they repeat the 'goodbye at the airport' scene?
 

Because they love symmetry in this show.

John at Sherlock's grave
John & Mary at Sherlock's grave

John & Mary saying goodbye to Sherlock
John & Sherlock saying goodbye to Mary.
 

John and Mary at Sherlock's grave is not symmetry, it's continuity, and it's a logical way to introduce a new situation by linking it to the previous one.

John and Sherlock at the airport again would just make the audience go, wha? Again?

 

 

July 27, 2015 10:04 pm  #37


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

tonnaree wrote:

Mary shooting Sherlock
John shooting Mary

*giggle*     http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

now *that* is symmetry! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png
http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

 

July 28, 2015 12:00 am  #38


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

Dorothy83 wrote:

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Dorothy83 wrote:


but why would they repeat the 'goodbye at the airport' scene?
 

Because they love symmetry in this show.

John at Sherlock's grave
John & Mary at Sherlock's grave

John & Mary saying goodbye to Sherlock
John & Sherlock saying goodbye to Mary.
 

John and Mary at Sherlock's grave is not symmetry, it's continuity, and it's a logical way to introduce a new situation by linking it to the previous one.

John and Sherlock at the airport again would just make the audience go, wha? Again?

 

Not the exact same scene, obviously. It doesn't even have to be at an airport. It could take place at 221B. I'm just talking about the fact that there'll be an emotional goodbye scene. Where it takes place doesn't matter to my theory.


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July 28, 2015 9:02 am  #39


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Dorothy83 wrote:

Sherlock Holmes wrote:


Because they love symmetry in this show.

John at Sherlock's grave
John & Mary at Sherlock's grave

John & Mary saying goodbye to Sherlock
John & Sherlock saying goodbye to Mary.
 

John and Mary at Sherlock's grave is not symmetry, it's continuity, and it's a logical way to introduce a new situation by linking it to the previous one.

John and Sherlock at the airport again would just make the audience go, wha? Again?

 

Not the exact same scene, obviously. It doesn't even have to be at an airport. It could take place at 221B. I'm just talking about the fact that there'll be an emotional goodbye scene. Where it takes place doesn't matter to my theory.

ah ok, I get what you mean. I think there absolutely will be a goodbye scene with Mary, I'd like to think there's a chance it could be a 'unhappy' goodbye, with John angry at her or whatever, but as I mentioned before I think it'll definitely be 'heartwrenching' and difficult for John.

What I don't want, is for John to be also angry at Sherlock, when that goodbye happens...

 

August 2, 2015 9:05 pm  #40


Re: If we assume that Mary lives, how do you think S4 would play out?

Mary´s past catches up to her in S4 and her former criminal "colleagues" find her. When she spots one of them on the street, she knows she´s toast. So she apes Sherlock and fakes her own death, escaping to Sussex Downs and hiding at Janine´s place.

John comes home to find everything shattered and a pool of blood in the bedroom. Police concludes that Mary was probably killed (and they actually suspect John as a perpetrator), yet Sherlock with his sharp observation skills notices that the clues are faked and starts vigorously investigating the truth, acompanied by the shaken and confused John. They reveal the secret of Mary´s past and yes, it terribly ugly. After a few days, they find Mary at Janine´s cottage, but alas! Mary´s enemies were shadowing them and as long as Mary appears in front of the cottage, they start shooting at her.

Mary jumps into Janine´s car and furiously drives away, pursued by the enemies. John jumps into the car they rented with Sherlock and follows them at high speed. Sherlock remains forgotten in front of the cottage, desperately spinning to all sides, not knowing what to do.

And old lady, passing by on a bicycle, stops, offers her bicycle to Sherlock and tells him: "It´s not that quick, but it´s better than nothing."
Sherlock jumps on top of a bicycle: "Thank you so much, Mrs.....?"
"Marple. Miss Jane Marple."
"I owe you, Miss Marple!"

Sherlock starts pedalling like a devil and goes after cars that disappeared already.

John sees Mary´s car at the edge of the famous white cliffs, "The Seven Sisters" and spots Mary being engaged in a shooting fifgt with her enemies. He joins her and together they dispatch the men. But how big is John´s surprise when instead of thanking him, Mary points a gun at him!

"I´m really sorry, John." she says. "I really do... but I won´t ever be safe if you would remain alive, knowing about my past. So it must end like this. But you will always remain in my heart, I promise you, honey."
John swallows and rasps, his throat dry as a sandpaper: "I´m armed too, you know... I can still shoot you in retaliation."
Mary laughs: "You, shooting me? Then do it, come on!"
John sqeezes his pistol tightly, but Mary´s right, he can´t bring himself to shoot a woman. He pales and awaits his death.

In that moment Sherlock appears. He is unarmed, but comprehending the situation immediatelly, he screams loudly and throws a bicycle at Mary. Mary, spotting this and shaken by his cry, turn and shoots blindly after him. But she hits the bicycle flying in the air instead and as the bicycle shatters in front of her, she takes a step back, slips accidentaly and with a horrible scream falls from the very top of the cliff down to the sea and is killed instantly.

John´s knees weaken and he find himself kneeling on the ground, panting in shock. Sherlock runs up to him and holds him for a long time. John hugs him tightly and pressing his face into Sherlock´s chest, he closes his eyes tightly, prepared to never let go of him.

After a while, John stops sniffing and seems a bit better. Sherlock slowly caresses his back and sais in a subdued voice: "I´m so sorry for your loss, John. I never meant for this to happen."
John rubs his red rimmed eyes and smiles weakly at him: "You know, Sherlock... it´s OK. Her strange sense of romance was not my cup of tea anyway."

Last edited by nakahara (August 2, 2015 9:27 pm)


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

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