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November 1, 2014 3:59 pm  #1


The deleted scene (special edition)

Feel free to discuss the deleted scene in here. You can also put things you posted in the special edition thread without using spoiler tags. 

 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

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November 1, 2014 4:16 pm  #2


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

That was soooo creepy! 

Honestly... I was shivering as if it was me he was touching. 'Get off him you... you!!!!' was ringing through my head

Honestly, Magnussen was a good villain in my book. 

But stop touching Sherlock now. Please!!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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November 1, 2014 4:41 pm  #3


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

Some thoughts: 

I think the scene confirms that Sherlock is gay. Magnussen knows lots of things about the people he targets or uses as pressure points. The "woman's hands" comment does not make sense if it is not about Magnussen knowing about Sherlock's sexual orientation. 

He lets Sherlock know that he has protected Mary because he prefers to use her as a valuable asset instead of turning her over to the authorities. IMO this scene helps to explain the other one with Magnussen at the Italian restaurant. 

The parallels between this scene and the Mary scene are striking - the blurred views, the physical closeness, the thinly veiled threats. This scene for me serves to establish Mary as a villain even more than before. And while Magnussen shows an admittedly disgusting but somehow personal attitude with sexual undertones towards Sherlock, Mary is the one who acts in a cold and calculated way.
 


 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

November 1, 2014 5:17 pm  #4


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

What did Magnussen says exactly that would indicate Sherlock being gay? I am not sure whether I understood him correctly. On the other hand, the implication would fit perfectly into the whole series 3. There were so many hints of Sherlock's devotion towards John in all three episodes.
I think Moftiss deliberately walking on a thin line between bromance and romance with the relatinship of Sherlock and John. I am really curious in which direction they will lead us in series 4  .


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"There is a place for people like you, the desperate, the terrified. The ones with nowhere else to run."
"What place?"
"221B Baker Street."
 

November 1, 2014 5:32 pm  #5


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

He starts stroking Sherlock's hands. "A musician's hands. An artist's." Then he shoots Sherlock an intense look and asks: "A woman's?"
This together with "All the nice girls like a soldier" and "Sherlock is actually a girl's name", the dancing and the napkins and knowing all about colours and him not sleeping with Janine and coming back to life for John - this is quite a lot of evidence, I would say. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

November 1, 2014 5:40 pm  #6


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

One might argue that Magnussen just likes to get very, very close to the people he's putting under pressure - we've seen that at the beginning of HLV with Lady Smallwood. He touches his 'victims' and just gets very physical, that seems to be what he likes (and what he's good at).
But then there are the things he's saying to Sherlock - Susi has just mentioned it. That's pretty striking. It's one thing to get close to Sherlock, to touch him and bend over him... but why should he talk about Sherlock's hands in such a manner?


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?"
http://picload.org/image/wcodogr/jungssignatur.jpg

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

November 1, 2014 5:41 pm  #7


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

Or could CAM be saying Irene has told him about her and Sherlock 'stroking' hands at 221B?
But yeah I get what you're saying, tho why 'artist'?

Last edited by besleybean (November 1, 2014 5:46 pm)


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November 1, 2014 5:46 pm  #8


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

Yes, physical closeness and crossing lines is his MO.
If you look at the scene with Lady Smallwood and the one in Baker Street, there is an interesting fact - he does not lie openly. The things he says are true. Lady Smallwood is not a young woman, her husband has done something reprehensible, Redbeard is a traumatic memory for Sherlock. 
If we assume that Magnussen in these situations tells the truth, he will do so at the hospital as well. 

Besley: I think is is quite clear that he is not talking about Irene. This is about Sherlock and him and power. No idea if he is really sexually attracted to him or if he just uses Sherlock's helplessness to threaten him and make his own position clear. For me the only hint to Irene is the single rose. 

Last edited by SusiGo (November 1, 2014 5:48 pm)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

November 1, 2014 5:48 pm  #9


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

Again I do get this...
Though actually the incident with the young girl was an honest mistake, which Lord Smallwood quickly corrected.

CAM could also just be teasing Sherlock in a gay way, a bit like Jim.

Last edited by besleybean (November 1, 2014 5:50 pm)


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November 1, 2014 5:51 pm  #10


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

This is true, maybe my wording was not correct.
All the scenes show that Magnussen usually does not tell lies. And he would not be lying either if he wrote in his papers that Mary was a killer or that Sherlock came to him with Mycroft's laptop or that John came armed to Baker Street or whatever. So I assume when he insinuates that Sherlock is gay that would be true as well. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

November 1, 2014 5:53 pm  #11


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

I agree, if that is what he's insinuating!


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November 1, 2014 6:07 pm  #12


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

Well, I can't seem to post on this thread at the moment!  Testing, testing, testing .... want to discuss exciting deleted scene ...

Last edited by Liberty (November 1, 2014 6:07 pm)

 

November 1, 2014 6:14 pm  #13


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

it works on me!


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November 1, 2014 6:25 pm  #14


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

CAM uses pressure points, brings back up things his 'victims' do not want to remember or be reminded of... He teases them and delivers small precise but intense blows with one single word.

Maybe he is teasing Sherlock about his 'womanly' hands because he often has had his sexuality and (maybe even gender) questioned and it made more of an impact than people might have noticed...

 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Don't talk out loud, you lower the IQ of the whole street!"
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"Oh Watson. Nothing made me... I made me"
"Luuuuurve Ginger Nuts"

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#IbelieveInSeries5
 

November 1, 2014 6:30 pm  #15


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

Hmm, well that post above worked after about the 6th attempt ...

I don't think the scene is saying Sherlock is gay ... I think Magnusson is acting sexually towards Sherlock - and Sherlock being male doesn't make him safe.  It's not about Sherlock possibly desiring men, but about him having to submit to Magnusson's control.  It reminds me a lot of the face-licking scene with Lady Smallwood.   I don't think Magnusson believes Sherlock finds him attractive or seductive.   He even mentions the wetness of his own hands, as he did with Lady Smallwood.  And he almost kisses him - makes him feel as if he's about to be kissed and has no control over it.  I don't know how far Magnusson takes these sexual advances normally, but it maybe doesn't go any further ... there's nothing there that could be reported as a sexual assault.  (Holding his hand, leaning in close to talk to him). 

But also it doesn't quite make sense, even if Sherlock is gay.  It's not a pressure point (Magnusson already knows his pressure points), it wouldn't be a pressure point for Sherlock (it's fine), and Sherlock doesn't even act on it.   And Magnusson doesn't need Sherlock to be gay to abuse him in that sexual way.  Magnusson doesn't need to be gay either.  It's a control thing. 

I'll see if I can copy my other posts over.  I'm so excited about getting a new scene!

Last edited by Liberty (November 1, 2014 6:31 pm)

 

November 1, 2014 6:36 pm  #16


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

Do we have any idea why CAM mentions that some of the flowers were sent by C Block, Pentonville Prison...? We heard about that prison before in TRF, but... what does it mean in this context, if anything at all?
I looked for the prison on the internet, but didn't come up with anything specific (I think)...
http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-368620-pentonville-prison-a-b-c-and-d-wings-and

I also have trouble understanding which kind of flowers he's talking about here, only that they're black...
edit: I found it, he's talking about a black wreath. Okay, not really kind. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png


By the way, here is the transcript of the scene:
http://arianedevere.livejournal.com/74172.html
 

Last edited by SolarSystem (November 1, 2014 6:42 pm)


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?"
http://picload.org/image/wcodogr/jungssignatur.jpg

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

November 1, 2014 6:36 pm  #17


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

How do you connect Irene with the single rose?

And what does Magnussen mean by saying "a woman's (hand)" if not that Sherlock is gay?

Last edited by Schmiezi (November 1, 2014 6:38 pm)


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November 1, 2014 6:37 pm  #18


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

SusiGo wrote:

He starts stroking Sherlock's hands. "A musician's hands. An artist's." Then he shoots Sherlock an intense look and asks: "A woman's?"
This together with "All the nice girls like a soldier" and "Sherlock is actually a girl's name", the dancing and the napkins and knowing all about colours and him not sleeping with Janine and coming back to life for John - this is quite a lot of evidence, I would say. 

Let's not forget, John being Sherlock's pressure point. Yeah the hints of Sherlock's devotion are quite evident in series 3. Sadly, it seems to be one-sided. I meant, sure, John cares deeply for Sherlock, but it seems that the emotions are much deeper on Sherlock's side.
 


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"There is a place for people like you, the desperate, the terrified. The ones with nowhere else to run."
"What place?"
"221B Baker Street."
 

November 1, 2014 6:43 pm  #19


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

SolarSystem wrote:

Do we have any idea why CAM mentions that some of the flowers were sent by C Block, Pentonville Prison...? We heard about that prison before in TRF, but... what does it mean in this context, if anything at all?
I looked for the prison on the internet, but didn't come up with anything specific (I think)...
http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-368620-pentonville-prison-a-b-c-and-d-wings-and

I also have trouble understanding which kind of flowers he's talking about here, only that they're black...

 

I believe he said a black wreath, which would suggest a funeral - they're sending a death wish.  I assumed they were sent by people whom Sherlock had had convicted! 
 

 

November 1, 2014 6:46 pm  #20


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

Schmiezi wrote:

And what does Magnussen mean by saying "a woman's (hand)" if not that Sherlock is gay?

Right. CAM could say all sorts of things, he could get close to Sherlock and make physical contact without going into this specific direction. He could just 'do it' without making any comments, even if this is about demonstrating power. (It's pretty easy, by the way, to demonstrate power when the other party is lying in bed, unable to speak or move...)
 


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?"
http://picload.org/image/wcodogr/jungssignatur.jpg

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

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