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August 17, 2014 12:56 pm  #21


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

That's interesting.  Here (UK), I think they might be tested on entry, but not routinely.   People are supposed to practice safely.  If somebody was HIV+ they might not be able to carry out certain more risky procedures, but they could still be a nurse or doctor. 

Working with food, I think you're expected to have a food hygiene certificate, but that's about food handling and safety rather than testing for disease.  And working with children, you'd normally have a DBS check (a check of your criminal record).  John and Mary would have had a DBS at some point, but presumably Mary's fake identity wouldn't have shown up anything. 

It isn't routine here to have STD testing with a new relationship either.  Very few people seem to do it.  Maybe John and Mary would go for it, being health professionals, but not necessarily. 

 

August 17, 2014 9:49 pm  #22


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

Oh, good point Sherlockismyfix, never thought about it before. But of course, they are old enough to know this stuff. The question is, did Mofftiss think about it, too or is it totally unimportant? We saw in the past series that not everything we thought is super-important was important at all.


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August 18, 2014 2:27 am  #23


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

Well my small input in this debate is that I think the writers introduced the baby, something that was never alluded in the canon stories, because after Mary tries to kill sherlock and turns out to be a contract killer they needed a reason for John to stay with her. In a sence John has decided to continue his relationship with Mary for the sake of the baby instead of love.

Last edited by tykobrian (August 18, 2014 2:36 am)


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Series arc of Sherlock | Clues to #johnlock being endgame | My fav Sherlock blog
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August 18, 2014 5:07 am  #24


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

tykobrian wrote:

Well my small input in this debate is that I think the writers introduced the baby, something that was never alluded in the canon stories, because after Mary tries to kill sherlock and turns out to be a contract killer they needed a reason for John to stay with her. In a sence John has decided to continue his relationship with Mary for the sake of the baby instead of love.

That would surely explain his less than enthusiastic face at the christmas scene at the Holmes' home with Mary.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

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August 18, 2014 5:44 am  #25


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

Schmiezi wrote:

tykobrian wrote:

Well my small input in this debate is that I think the writers introduced the baby, something that was never alluded in the canon stories, because after Mary tries to kill sherlock and turns out to be a contract killer they needed a reason for John to stay with her. In a sence John has decided to continue his relationship with Mary for the sake of the baby instead of love.

That would surely explain his less than enthusiastic face at the christmas scene at the Holmes' home with Mary.

Yes and come to think of it John's "The problems of your past are your business. The problems of your future are my privilege" had kind of an ominous feel to it. It's almost like the writers are foreshadowing something. And not to mention Mary never actually apologized for her actions on screen.


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Series arc of Sherlock | Clues to #johnlock being endgame | My fav Sherlock blog
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August 18, 2014 6:00 am  #26


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

I think he does love her (although love must be shaken when everything has been a lie).  But that's a really good point, tykobrian.   I think it needed something more than his feelings for Mary to make it believable that they would stay together.  And I agree about the foreshadowing. 

 

August 18, 2014 7:21 am  #27


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

Baby or not, if John wouldn't love Mary, he would not throw the memory stick away...this is in my eyes simply the modern equivalent to the original story, in which Mary is unreachable for John (socially) until the Agra treasure is destroyed. I think that the writers made pretty clear that the problems of Mary's past are now done (otherwise Sherlock's action would be for nothing, too), and whatever will happen to Mary in the future will happen because of her current life, not because of her past.

 

August 18, 2014 8:54 am  #28


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

Swanpride wrote:

Baby or not, if John wouldn't love Mary, he would not throw the memory stick away...this is in my eyes simply the modern equivalent to the original story, in which Mary is unreachable for John (socially) until the Agra treasure is destroyed. I think that the writers made pretty clear that the problems of Mary's past are now done (otherwise Sherlock's action would be for nothing, too), and whatever will happen to Mary in the future will happen because of her current life, not because of her past.

Hmm well I had a different theory to explain why John didn’t read the memory stick. It’s actually even said so by Mary: because after he reads her files he won’t love her anymore. So John already furious and devastated can’t bear to read the files just in case there’s something in there that is so unforgivable that he won’t be able to return to Mary even thinking of the baby.
 
Anyways, the Mary character is totally suspicious to me. No matter what Sherlock appears to believe about her I can never accept or forgive her for the things she has done to maintain her relationship with John. And quite frankly I think it is a huge hint from the showrunners that Mary never showed any remorse for her actions. Can you ever remember her saying how sorry she is for all the pain she caused them? And personally I think Sherlock was bending backwards to prove Mary has actually a fundamentally good person so he can stay at her good side and spy on her and try to find out what’s going on behind her back. But he was compelled to kill CAM and all his plans backfired as now he’d be sent away to be incarcerated. So in the end maybe he hopes against hope that although Mary had a dark past she really is in love with John and has no ulterior motive. And perhaps he confided everything to Mycroft and asked him to handle the situation at his absence.
 
There is a theory circulating that Mary is the stand-in for Moriarty’s sniper Moran and he has stationed her with John to “burn the heart out of him” by creating a wedge between them. To tell the truth, Mary’s presence did ultimately create a wedge between the leads. And most importantly I found it highly suspicious that the writers completely deviated from the canon and made Mary a hitman. I mean what was the point of all this? All of this is highly suspicious. Anyways, I’m expecting that the Mary conflict is far from resolved or over.


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Series arc of Sherlock | Clues to #johnlock being endgame | My fav Sherlock blog
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2jfwytx.jpg
 

August 18, 2014 9:46 am  #29


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

Swanpride wrote:

Baby or not, if John wouldn't love Mary, he would not throw the memory stick away...this is in my eyes simply the modern equivalent to the original story, in which Mary is unreachable for John (socially) until the Agra treasure is destroyed. I think that the writers made pretty clear that the problems of Mary's past are now done (otherwise Sherlock's action would be for nothing, too), and whatever will happen to Mary in the future will happen because of her current life, not because of her past.

That´s a really interesting thought and it totally makes sense for me. I just recently read "The Sign of Four" for the first time and didn´t know of the Agra treasure before. I always wondered where these special initials in HLV came from. Throwing the stick away is a very pausible equivalent  for the destruction of the treasure in my opinion and it is somehow resetting the relationship between John and Mary, in canon it gives them the possibility to get together at last while in the series it gives them a second chance.

Last edited by Germansherlockfan (August 18, 2014 9:47 am)

 

August 18, 2014 9:53 am  #30


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

There is another theory comparing Mary, the "hollow woman" about whom we know next to nothing, to the empty treasure box. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

August 18, 2014 9:57 am  #31


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

Ok, could very well be that this is just the whole story behind this "romantic" scene. It is my personal opinion that this would be awfully unsatisfying to let Mary off the hook like that and just cover everything with sugary icing. I sincerely hope there is more to that. Concerning the original canon don't forget that the AGRA treasure box was empty... I find that thought way more intriguing. Furthermore for me there is a difference, because in the show John (deliberately?) chose to forgive his lying wife whilst in canon it was rather a matter of social circumstances coming between them and neither of them really had big influence in the development, they were lucky.


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"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

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August 18, 2014 10:10 am  #32


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

Come to think of it, the whole set-up is odd - that all the information is contained on that memory stick.  I mean, Mary could just tell John her name, or anything else.  But John is telling her he doesn't want to know.  I suppose that he's right in a way - she has had 5 years to become who she is now.  What does it matter what she was? 

The point about the empty box in the book was that Watson had fallen for Mary, but didn't feel he could propose if she was going to be rich (as it would seem as if he'd fallen for her money!).  When the box is empty, he's delighted.  I'm trying to think how that fits with HLV, but Mrshouse, you've got me thinking - do you mean that maybe the memory stick was empty? 

The TV series has done it all the other way round.  The book starts with meeting Mary and ends with the proposal, then nothing about the wedding and after.  Whereas the TV series starts with the proposal and carries on from there. 

 

August 18, 2014 10:12 am  #33


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

Back to topic now? Thank you! 


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

August 18, 2014 10:18 am  #34


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

I think this is still alright. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png
http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

In the case of a (improbable but not completely impossible) fake pregnancy which has been discussed in another thread the image would be also applicable..


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

August 18, 2014 10:20 am  #35


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

Fine. Sticks and chests and pregnancy, I see your point!


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

August 18, 2014 11:24 am  #36


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

SusiGo wrote:

In the case of a (improbable but not completely impossible) fake pregnancy which has been discussed in another thread the image would be also applicable..

 
In the Christmas scene, she looks pretty pregnant, and I'm  not sure what she would gain by stuffing a pillow inside her shirt beyond John's further sense of betrayal.

Last edited by Sherlockismyfix (August 19, 2014 11:55 am)


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August 19, 2014 5:57 am  #37


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

Sherlockismyfix wrote:

SusiGo wrote:

In the case of a (improbable but not completely impossible) fake pregnancy which has been discussed in another thread the image would be also applicable..

 
In the Christmas scene, she looks pretty pregnant, and I'm not sure what she would gain by stuffing a pillow inside her shirt beyond John's further sees of betrayal.

http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png
 http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png


Did any of you wonder if the baby is not John's but his "ex" David's? http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/blooper.png
 He is another curious addition to the show. When confronted David nervously says that they allegly broke up ages ago and are just good friends now. But Sherlock thinks that that's not the case and even takes action to make sure he doesn't come in the couple's way:

Whenever she tweets, you respond within five minutes regardless of time or current location, suggesting you have her on text alert. In all your Facebook photographs of the happy couple, Mary takes centre frame whereas John is always partly or entirely excluded.

Thoughts? http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/confused.png


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Series arc of Sherlock | Clues to #johnlock being endgame | My fav Sherlock blog
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August 19, 2014 6:03 am  #38


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

Yes, many of us have mentioned it could be David's baby.


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July 23, 2015 2:28 am  #39


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

Sherlockismyfix wrote:

We are asked to believe that John and Mary 'accidentally' get pregnant. I don't buy it. They are both medical professionals, and both adults in their 30s. It's not impossible, certainly, but it seems very unlikely to me.

I think Mary intentionally sabotaged whatever birth control they were using. I think she did this when Sherlock returned because she wanted to make sure of John. In spite of her saying "I like him" in TEH, she had to have been wondering if John would lose interest in her now that Sherlock was back, that maybe she was the consolation prize, and that he might now abandon their relationship. I think she got pregnant on purpose to ensure that John would stay with her.

Thoughts?

I agree. Add to that, Mary getting pregnant at her age is risky. And not all that easy. 

 

July 23, 2015 6:21 am  #40


Re: Accidental pregnancy? Seriously?

Was there a point in having Sherlock yell at crap telly about the man not being the father due to the turn up  of his jeans and having Mary sitting there with a turn up in her jeans? How about the camera resting on David as Sherlock says 'all that is false and specious in the world' red herrings or clues?


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We solve crimes, I blog about it and he forgets his pants, so I wouldn’t hold out too much hope. (Scandal in Belgravia)

I asked you for one more miracle. I asked you to stop being dead..........I heard you.(The Empty Hearse)
 

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