BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012.


You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



August 5, 2014 2:10 pm  #41


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

SusiGo wrote:

This was what made me start the thread. Why did he take the gun although it was probable they would be searched? 

Maybe he relied on having the ultimate Christmas present for Magnussen? He believed that would distract Magnussen from security measures?
 


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

August 5, 2014 2:12 pm  #42


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

Added incentive?
Possible.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

August 5, 2014 2:15 pm  #43


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

besleybean wrote:

I could be totally wrong, but I just do not think he planned to kill CAM.
I think Sherlock took the gun for self defence.

No, don't think so. Magnussen never killed people himself. His methods to destroy people are totally different. And I also don't think that Magnussen would order his men to kill Sherlock and John.
 


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

August 5, 2014 2:16 pm  #44


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

From a legal standpoint, John supplied the murder weapon, which, as has been pointed out, is likely unregistered and illegal. Another charge against John. The gun would be traced back to him, being military issue and whatnot. The only way I can believe that John didn't get wrapped up in this is that Mycroft made a fast deal with the Crown: you don't ask where my brother got the gun and you can punish him.

Again, I work in law enforcement in Canada, which has a legal system was based on Britain's, so I'm not pulling this out of thin air. I recently worked on two cases that were very similar to this. A junkie stormed a crackhouse and killed his dealer with a knife. The buddy who supplied the knife and swore up and down that he just gave it to his friend without knowing that the friend was going to do with it was indicted as an accomplice to the murder. In another, a guy drove the getaway car for a home robbery in which the robber inadvertently killed the homeowner during a struggle. The guy driving the car was also charged with second degree murder, although his charge was plead down to involuntary manslaughter.

Mary


John: That's clever. So you scratch their backs and...
Sherlock: Yes. And then disinfect myself.
 

August 5, 2014 2:20 pm  #45


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

John didn't give Sherlock the gun and I also believe the gun is licensed.
I think when your faced with a blatant murder, eveything else is irrelevant.
Mycroft's people wouldn't care where the gun came from...they work under orders anyway.
This is secret service stuff.
They weren't intending to murder anybody....originally.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

August 5, 2014 2:28 pm  #46


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

That's also the reason why I think Sherlock won't have a problem if he returns ... for the public.
IMO Magnussen was officially killed be an unknown murderer.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

August 5, 2014 2:39 pm  #47


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

Nice job playing the defending attorney, but John just as good as gave Sherlock the gun by bringing it along at Sherlock's request and telling Sherlock what it was. Again, based on legal precedent, not wishful thinking on my part.

I do think that a competent defense attorney could possibly successfully argue that Sherlock asked for the gun for protection only and that he wasn't intending on killing Magnussen. That could allow for a plea bargain down from first degree murder to second degree murder or even manslaughter for Sherlock and some lesser charge for John, like illegal possession of a firearm. In the real world, of course. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/smile.png


Mary
 


John: That's clever. So you scratch their backs and...
Sherlock: Yes. And then disinfect myself.
 

August 5, 2014 2:42 pm  #48


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

The public aren't going to know about this at all.
Mycroft took his minions to apprehend CAM for holding private government property.
Those minions then witnessed a murder which their boss dealt with.
 


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

August 5, 2014 2:46 pm  #49


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

Well, it's a tv show in the end. Not everything in it is logical.
Let's face it. There has never been a trial against Sherlock. So there also was never the question about the gun .... who brought it ... who is guilty for what ...
Mycroft managed it.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

August 5, 2014 2:56 pm  #50


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

What an interesting topic! Here are my „two cents“ to it:
 
Sherlock wanted to get rid of CAM, but certainly not by killing him – he just wished to uncover his illegal blackmail material that contained some classified government information and have CAM arrested. During CAM´s visit to Baker Street he was mislead into thinking that CAM has this information physically, on paper, because CAM himself suggested it. Sherlock therefore staged whole „selling of Mycroft´s notebook deal“, but I don´t think he awaited that CAM will buy his story, nor did he care for that – his real objective was just to get inside Appledore. Sherlock probably believed that he will be able to uncover the place where CAM hid his vaults by his power of keen observation and then he will force CAM to give those blackmail materials up (or alternatively, he will just force CAM to wait until Mycroft´s men come and arrest him for possessing that classified information as a foreign spy).
 
And here is where a gun comes into the play – CAM was clearly panicked and willing to do anything when Mary pointed a gun at him, so why not use this easy method of threatening him? So, Sherlock orders John to bring his gun. Earlier, when they comitted burglary into CAM´s office, the gun was not needed – if John and Sherlock were caught there, the gun would incriminate them in a serious way. That´s not the case with Appledore where Sherlock planned to force Magnussen to give his vaults up, or, if that would not be possible, to act as a „concerned citizen stopping a foreign spy from escaping“.
 
The revelation that CAM has his vaults only in his head was therefore a catastrophe for Sherlock. He realised that he has lead John into a trap and that they will be both arrested for treason and leave both Mary and Mycroft at CAM´s mercy. But I still don´t think Sherlock thought about killing CAM immediately. I believe that he was just broken and badly shaken up. The idea of killing CAM only occured to him after CAM flicked John´s face. That was the last straw that did it and it pushed Sherlock towards self-sacrifice.
 
As to why John wasn´t accused as Sherlock´s accomplice – can it be that Sherlock confessed to gun being his own? He killed CAM in a way that left no doubt that John didn´t plan this, maybe he went further and actually incriminated himself by confessing that it was him who hid that gun in John´s coat? Just my theory, of course.
 


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

August 5, 2014 2:58 pm  #51


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

I think multiple witnesses to him blasting CAM from this Earth...may have just helped a little.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

August 5, 2014 3:05 pm  #52


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

nakahara wrote:

The revelation that CAM has his vaults only in his head was therefore a catastrophe for Sherlock. He realised that he has lead John into a trap and that they will be both arrested for treason and leave both Mary and Mycroft at CAM´s mercy. But I still don´t think Sherlock thought about killing CAM immediately. I believe that he was just broken and badly shaken up. The idea of killing CAM only occured to him after CAM flicked John´s face. That was the last straw that did it and it pushed Sherlock towards self-sacrifice.
 

I still believe Sherllocks decision to kill Magnussen came straight away  when he realised that there were no vaults. Which other chance did he have to solve the problem?
What Sherlock did ... he deliberately waited for Mycroft and his men before shooting. To be sure that John wasn't suspected.
 


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

August 5, 2014 3:16 pm  #53


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

nakahara wrote:

And here is where a gun comes into the play – CAM was clearly panicked and willing to do anything when Mary pointed a gun at him,  

That was hilarious, by the way. So undignified!

 

The idea of killing CAM only occured to him after CAM flicked John´s face. That was the last straw that did it and it pushed Sherlock towards self-sacrifice. 

I actually think the notion happened inthe non-vault room, where we see Sherlock practically catatonic, and the flicking plus CAM's hero comment are what gave Sherlock the final nudge he needed.
 
 

As to why John wasn´t accused as Sherlock´s accomplice – can it be that Sherlock confessed to gun being his own? 

He can confess what he wants, but that gun would be traced back to John in a proper investigation. In fact, it would be traced all the way back to the killing of the taxi driver SIP if John made the mistake of hanging onto the same gun. Mycroft definitely had a hand in getting the investigation shut down fast.

Mary


John: That's clever. So you scratch their backs and...
Sherlock: Yes. And then disinfect myself.
 

August 5, 2014 3:21 pm  #54


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

gently69 wrote:

Sherlock certainly did. You can see it in his face when he finally realised that there are no vaults.

https://38.media.tumblr.com/aae1013f306d660f45f09d1e3bc2cbdd/tumblr_n9k7a4GvWM1s9htd1o9_500.gif

For me this is the moment he decides to kill Magnussen. This and no other. The second he realises it is all in his head. CAM threatening John is just to make it clear to all of us. Sherlock knows it at once. 
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

August 5, 2014 3:25 pm  #55


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

maryagrawatson wrote:

He can confess what he wants, but that gun would be traced back to John in a proper investigation. In fact, it would be traced all the way back to the killing of the taxi driver SIP if John made the mistake of hanging onto the same gun. Mycroft definitely had a hand in getting the investigation shut down fast.

Mary

What makes you think it's the same gun like in SiP?
 


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

August 5, 2014 3:41 pm  #56


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

Because it's John's gun,.ex-service I reckon.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

August 5, 2014 3:42 pm  #57


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

I suppose Mycroft took care of that. He was there after John shot the cabbie and he was present in Appledore. Quite simple if you are the British Government. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

August 5, 2014 3:45 pm  #58


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

And why should he keep it after using it for a murder? If it can be followed?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

August 5, 2014 3:46 pm  #59


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

The interesting thing is that in the pilot he told Sherlock the gun was at the bottom of the Thames. If I remember correctly they skipped that part in ASiP. Because in TGG he has the gun again. And I suppose it is the same gun Sherlock uses at the pool to threaten Moriary with. 

Last edited by SusiGo (August 5, 2014 3:47 pm)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

August 5, 2014 3:50 pm  #60


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

Yes, remember that from the pilot too.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum