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July 4, 2014 12:40 pm  #41


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

gently69 wrote:

Okay, then definitely Sherlock is the bad one.

Sherlock definitely needs to learn to be a real cold-blooded selfish narcissist. Because when he is helpful and self-sacrificing, people tend to scoff at him and blame him for everything that goes wrong.

If I was him, I would start by demanding fat pay-checks for consultations. Nobody values things he gets for free and nobody values pearls if he lives on the island where pearls are commonly found. If Sherlock´s help cost a fortune, people would quickly stop to take him for granted or to feel like they are entitled to have his aid whenever they whistle at him.

Then I would learn to leave people wallowing in their own shit and to only help them if I can also gain something from it. Obviously, noone condemns you if you are a self-serving b*tch.
 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

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July 4, 2014 2:28 pm  #42


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

I´m trying to imagine "Mary shot Sherlock" scenario turned around:

Sherlock is blackmailed by his drug dealer who demands more and more money and decides to get rid of him permanently.
Just as he is about to shoot the dealer, Mary accidentally walks on him in the dark alley.

Sherlock: "Mary, is John with you?"
Mary: "N-no... I won´t say a thing to him, Sherlock. But, please, don´t do it, let me help you..."
Sherlock: BANG!

I´m curious if people would percieve it in the same manner: "Oh, he just did it for John´s love. John wouldn´t love him, if he knew the truth. But we all do stupid thinhs when in love."

I somehow doubt it.


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

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July 4, 2014 2:53 pm  #43


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

I think drug addict and having a dealer chasing you because of a debt is somehow different than trying to bury your past to have happy and normal life in the future.


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July 4, 2014 5:26 pm  #44


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

Dealer chasing a debt?


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July 4, 2014 5:51 pm  #45


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

Mary would have gone through some intense psychological programming to do her work for the CIA and whomever else she was answering to. I believe that her shooting Sherlock is a direct result of her conditioning. It's how she was taught to react in a situation like that and it wasn't until after the fact that she was able to understand that there are different ways to resolve problems than killing people. She's really quite a tragic figure.

Mary


John: That's clever. So you scratch their backs and...
Sherlock: Yes. And then disinfect myself.
 

July 4, 2014 7:02 pm  #46


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

Intersting thought. Plausible too.
And yet it´s still no reason to not admit that Mary´s deed was wrong to the very core.


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

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July 4, 2014 7:14 pm  #47


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

It's wrong to us, but in the world she was living in, that was acceptable behaviour. I suspect that Mary will be an antagonist in season 4, but I would much rather we get scenes where she realises that letting go of her old life means working on getting deprogrammed. I was really in the camp that thought that Sherlock is pretending to still like Mary so that she won't know that he's working at taking her down, but I've mellowed a bit and now hope that they are truly friends.

Mary


John: That's clever. So you scratch their backs and...
Sherlock: Yes. And then disinfect myself.
 

July 4, 2014 7:20 pm  #48


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

Yes, Sherlock would fircely protect Mary, no matter what. She is the mother of John´s child and he would never want to make John unhappy and to see him loose his daughter.


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

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July 4, 2014 7:24 pm  #49


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

There's a big gap between being protective of Mary for John's sake and actually loving Mary and I am being unusually romantic in my notion that Sherlock genuinely cares for Mary, that she's his girl, that he considers her a friend in her own right, etc.

Mary


John: That's clever. So you scratch their backs and...
Sherlock: Yes. And then disinfect myself.
 

July 4, 2014 7:27 pm  #50


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

Well, Sherlock feelings towards Mary are hard to judge just from the scenes we have seen.
I´m really curious how they relationship will continue in S4.


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
     Thread Starter
 

July 5, 2014 6:59 pm  #51


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

For me, a real dark twist would be to make John choose between saving Sherlock or Mary in some way. John would choose Sherlock, and Mary would die, and John would not forgive himself even though it has been his choice. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/cry.png


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July 5, 2014 7:20 pm  #52


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

Yes, this would be terrible. I really do not want any more impediments between Sherlock and John. If there has to be darkness I want them to fact it together and not being torn apart by it again. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

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July 5, 2014 8:26 pm  #53


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

I agree, Sherlock and John against the rest of the world, please.
Then again... I guess it can't get any darker than Sherlock and John being apart and maybe even one of them having to make a decision that would mean bad, bad things for the other one... http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/errr.png


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July 6, 2014 10:29 am  #54


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

Schmiezi wrote:

For me, a real dark twist would be to make John choose between saving Sherlock or Mary in some way. John would choose Sherlock, and Mary would die, and John would not forgive himself even though it has been his choice. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/cry.png

Wow, that is actually a brilliant idea, very dark and profound and it would give the characters so much to work through, a real test for their friendship and their affection for eachother, I would love to see something like that.
 

 

July 6, 2014 2:00 pm  #55


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

I want Mary to do something so horrible that everyone sees her as a real villain.  Then John can shoot her.


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July 6, 2014 3:12 pm  #56


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

tonnaree wrote:

I want Mary to do something so horrible that everyone sees her as a real villain.  Then John can shoot her.

 
It's so easy, isn't it? 


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July 6, 2014 3:31 pm  #57


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

Mattlocked wrote:

tonnaree wrote:

I want Mary to do something so horrible that everyone sees her as a real villain. Then John can shoot her.

 
It's so easy, isn't it?

...but we'll have to wait for something like this - at least till the end of series 4.

Martin on Amanda being now a permanent cast member:

“Certainly yes for the foreseeable future. While we play fast and loose with the original stories, we generally follow the trajectory of what Conan Doyle did. So he gets married, and then Mary dies – so at some point presumably she’ll die! But she’s certainly in… at least the next one,” he says, carefully, alert to any amateur Sherlocking on my part. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/10920472/Martin-Freeman-interview-Shakespeare-invented-Gollum.html

(or does "at least the next one" refer to the Special, not series 4?)
 


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Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


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July 7, 2014 1:13 am  #58


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

I would say Season 3's twists (or at least HLV's) were pretty dark in themselves. I'm actually hoping for explanations that make everything not as bad, as we had with Season 2.

 

July 7, 2014 6:46 am  #59


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

tonnaree wrote:

I want Mary to do something so horrible that everyone sees her as a real villain. Then John can shoot her.

Honestly? This is horrible. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/shocked.png


I do not agree with what Mary had done in HLV and I am not really happy about the character twist they did to her. But I don't see Mary as a villain, I never saw her as one. To be honest, I miss the lovely, gentle, funny and supportive Mary from TEH and TSoT. I loved her character so much in this two episodes that it almost hurt to see the character developement in HLV.
I don't want to keep her forever in the show. I want our boys back together in Baker Street too. But I hope that Moftiss will manage to bring the lovely Mary back, the one we liked and loved. And then at the end of series 4 she might do something selfless, maybe saving John's and/or Sherlock's life by sacrificing her own. She'll die in John's arms and we all will be sitting in front of our TVs, crying for loosing her http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/cry.png
.

That's what I hope will happen to her character (I am clueless what to do with the baby issue though).


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"There is a place for people like you, the desperate, the terrified. The ones with nowhere else to run."
"What place?"
"221B Baker Street."
 

July 7, 2014 8:40 am  #60


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

stoertebeker wrote:

I don't want to keep her forever in the show. I want our boys back together in Baker Street too. But I hope that Moftiss will manage to bring the lovely Mary back, the one we liked and loved. And then at the end of series 4 she might do something selfless, maybe saving John's and/or Sherlock's life by sacrificing her own. She'll die in John's arms and we all will be sitting in front of our TVs, crying for loosing her http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/cry.png
.

Sounds a bit like Disney to me... http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

Seriously, if Mofftiss really manage to convincingly turn her into lovely Mary again (although to me she never really felt all that lovely to start with, but that's another story) and explain her actions in a way that makes sense and that makes us understand why she did what she did - then chapeau. Just sacrificing herself certainly won't be enough though, a lot of explaining has to be done. And to be honest: At this point I'm not really all that interested in lots of explanations and background that revolve around Mary. If they can deal with that in one episode, fine. The rest of the time we get should  mostly be about Sherlock and John.
 


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"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

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