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July 3, 2014 10:15 pm  #21


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

I still think the new dramatic events in S4 will probably revolve around Mary. The action in S3 kind of set her up for a role and the plot involving wife having harmful secrets that hurt her husband or family appears quite a lot in the original stories of AC Doyle. Strange for a happily married man, but he certainly loved this plot device a lot (there are other stories that I have not yet mentioned, like "The Veiled Lodger" and "The Greek Interpreter" that also toy with the idea). So such thing would be canon-compliant at the same time.

I remember now that S3 revealed some parts of the past of Mrs Hudson that weren´t so pleasant either. So it might also be that it will be her past that comes to haunt our heroes.

The surprise we don´t await can be also positive and not a negative one. For example, Mary having another child from her previous marriage and John being confronted with the fact would be certainly surprising - nobody thought about such possibility yet. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

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July 4, 2014 1:38 am  #22


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

Rewatching HLV the other night, I realised that Mummy Holmes knows a lot about combustion and thought it was an interesting coincidence that John was put in a bonfire that Magnussen claimed to have control over. Red herring or might there be more Mummy in series four?

Mary


John: That's clever. So you scratch their backs and...
Sherlock: Yes. And then disinfect myself.
 

July 4, 2014 2:50 am  #23


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

MartaSt wrote:

I really want to know how they are going to deal with Sherlock being murderer. Because according to law he is criminal now. What producers will do about that fact? And I'm also wondering about both Sherlock's and John's feelings about this. We know that Magnussen was evil but that was all in all murder. I really want to know if Sherlock will have some remorse. I know that he is not like normal human being but we saw his change in season 3 so I wonder how this affect his life. Maybe this dark twist is Sherlock being haunted by guilt.

I actually kind of wondered why the British government treated Sherlock as a murderer in this instance of killing CAM (whom they all hated), when it's really not that much of a stretch. If he was on an M16 mission in Serbia for the two years he was away, he's pretty much a "James Bond" for them, which is not THAT far removed from an "A.G.R.A." I am sure the British government employes people like Mary...

And speaking of Serbia, and "dark twists," I would think Sherlock would be experiencing some sort of emotional trauma or fallout from his experiences there. I don't think we saw obvious signs of that in S3. Even in the mind palace scenes, I don't think he flashed back to Serbia.

But given that the British government did criminally punish Sherlock for CAM, it kind of made me feel like we were back to the end of S2, where a villain set Sherlock up to be in disgrace. CAM may not have planned it, but it felt like him winning after all. EXCEPT - don't forget that all the time we thought Moriarty was destroying Sherlock's reputation and bringing him down, all along it was all part of the Holmes' brothers plan to bring down Moriarty. So I somehow feel they must have similar aces up their sleeves with regards to CAM. I feel that if we just leave it there, with Sherlock having committed a murder, it's a victory for CAM and, indirectly, Moriarty.

Someone raised the possibility of CAM asking Sherlock to help him fake his death. I can't believe CAM never feared being murdered if he was blackmailing people like Mary.

Maybe the gun contained, not a real bullet, but a variation on Wiggins' drug, in bullet form, so CAM could be tranquilized? Maybe Sherlock said, "you can play dead and then run away," but then set it up so CAM would end up in custody. 

Or, maybe there was a fake shooting planned, (with or without CAM's complicity), but someone then switched real bullets into the gun? I even had the crazy idea that the "CAM" walking around was a robot, or that the Sherlock at Appledore was an impostor. (I've really caught the Mofftis bug now!)

I thought maybe the Smallwoods killed CAM before the final scenes, and used his body to fake Lord Smallwood's suicide...but that doesn't get around the fact that Sherlock shot SOMEBODY at Appledore. Someone said maybe there was another shot at the same time, that did the real killing?

I wonder if the MPs staged the trial of Sherlock because there was someone else involved with CAM's operation that they wanted to lull into a false sense of security.

Much as I would rather ship Sherlock with John than either Janine or THE woman, I can't help wondering if one of them staged Moriarty's return to help him out (or maybe both of them together - I can believe they're connected somehow.) I think Janine might have been grateful to be free of CAM. Irene might not have such objections to things CAM did...she did a lot of the same...but she might have felt she owed it to Sherlock to save him...or be trying for another "chance" with him.

 

July 4, 2014 3:30 am  #24


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

SherlocklivesinOH wrote:

And speaking of Serbia, and "dark twists," I would think Sherlock would be experiencing some sort of emotional trauma or fallout from his experiences there. I don't think we saw obvious signs of that in S3. Even in the mind palace scenes, I don't think he flashed back to Serbia.

I actually find it quite plausible that for Sherlock, it's not the worst thing that's happened to him from a psychological point of view, it's in the past, it's buried deep in his memories, and he's moved on. What bothers him more is the realisation of just how much he hurt John and then trying to make up for that, which is what motivates everything he does in series three.

I wonder if the MPs staged the trial of Sherlock because there was someone else involved with CAM's operation that they wanted to lull into a false sense of security.

There is no evidence that the Crown charged Sherlock, much less that he had a trial. It seems more like a private deal was made to avoid official prosecution. I work peripherally in law enforcement in Canada, which has a similar legal system as Britain (as it was based on theirs), and I've seen deals like these made. They also exist in the U.S. legal system. The court systems are backed up, Crown prosecutors are overworked, and there's also the issue of avoiding turning the trial into a media circus. Cutting a private deal that Sherlock goes undercover effectively punishes him, offers swift justice, and keeps things out of the public eye.

As for Janine, I'm convinced she's Moriarty's sister and the author of the letter Sherlock received at the beginning of The Great Game. The handwriting was definitely feminine and too fluid to have come from a coerced hand. There were two Moriarities in the original Holmes stories and I wouldn't put it past Moftiss to have made this idea their own and made the other Moriartity a female. The similarity of the names Janine and James combined with the Irish accents and dark features is all very suspicious.

Mary


John: That's clever. So you scratch their backs and...
Sherlock: Yes. And then disinfect myself.
 

July 4, 2014 4:46 am  #25


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

maryagrawatson wrote:

As for Janine, I'm convinced she's Moriarty's sister and the author of the letter Sherlock received at the beginning of The Great Game. The handwriting was definitely feminine and too fluid to have come from a coerced hand. There were two Moriarities in the original Holmes stories and I wouldn't put it past Moftiss to have made this idea their own and made the other Moriartity a female. The similarity of the names Janine and James combined with the Irish accents and dark features is all very suspicious.

love this theory.   I was always struck at the similarity in their accents, brown eyes,  Janine,/Jim,  chemistry with Sherlock, uncertain backgrounds,  etc.
 

 

July 4, 2014 4:49 am  #26


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

maryagrawatson wrote:

There were two Moriarities in the original Holmes stories (...)

Seriously? Mentioned where? http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/confused.png
I completely missed that. Need to read canon again soon.

BTW I love everything you suggested, nakahara. The stories you mentioned make a good reading list for the summer holidays. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

Last edited by Schmiezi (July 4, 2014 4:50 am)


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I still believe that love conquers all!

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"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

July 4, 2014 4:56 am  #27


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

Schmiezi wrote:

maryagrawatson wrote:

There were two Moriarities in the original Holmes stories (...)

Seriously? Mentioned where? http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/confused.png

Yes, there are two Moriartys - if not three:

"The stories give contradictory indications about Moriarty's family. In his first appearance in "The Final Problem", Moriarty is referred to as "Professor Moriarty" — no forename is mentioned. Watson does, however, refer to the name of another family member when he writes of "the recent letters in which Colonel James Moriarty defends the memory of his brother". In "The Adventure of the Empty House", Holmes refers to Moriarty on one occasion as "Professor James Moriarty". This is the only time Moriarty is given a first name, and oddly, it is the same as that of his purported brother; to wit The Valley of Fear (written after the preceding two stories, but set earlier), Holmes says of Professor Moriarty: "He is unmarried. His younger brother is a station master in the west of England."[12]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Moriarty

 


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!
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July 4, 2014 7:23 am  #28


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

Concerning Mary, I don't think it can get any darker and more twisted than it already did. I certainly don't want to see a child from her previous life or any such thing. The huge twist of S3 was about Mary, so I don't think a "dark twist" in S4 will involve her yet again. Of course they somehow need to 'deal' with Mary and her past, but I hope that the main focus will be somewhere else.

For me a very dark twist would be Moriarty being "the other one" and Mycroft and his mother knowing about this and covering it up for years. When Sherlock finds out... well... I have no idea about the why and how yet, but I certainly would love it. 


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?"

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"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

July 4, 2014 7:36 am  #29


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

Yes Solar, I would too. 
As long as he's still alive!
But I still wonder if this baby is John's...


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July 4, 2014 8:44 am  #30


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

Why shouldn't this child be John's? Ok, Mary has lied to him about her past but that doesn't mean that she was laying to him in every case. All in all she loves John and she tried to do everything to make him happy so what would be the point of cheating to John about their baby?


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"Hey, chief, I might be wrong, but I think we're flying into a mountain. This makes me feel... scared of the mountain.
One thing we could do is pull up and fly over the mountain. How does that sound to...
"
 

July 4, 2014 8:50 am  #31


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

Well, to make John stay with her? It could indeed be another deduction about her that Sherlock got wrong, and Mary certainly has the means and knowledge to fake all sorts of data about her pregnancy. 
But I do suspect this might be one of the few things she did indeed not lie about to John.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?"

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"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

July 4, 2014 8:52 am  #32


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

SolarSystem wrote:

For me a very dark twist would be Moriarty being "the other one" and Mycroft and his mother knowing about this and covering it up for years. When Sherlock finds out... well... I have no idea about the why and how yet, but I certainly would love it. 

Oh yes, that could be interesting.

@Marta
Mary tried everything to make John happy? Well strange way she did ... http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

 


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Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

July 4, 2014 8:55 am  #33


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

Gently: well, people do crazy things because of love


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http://38.media.tumblr.com/ddadc75684f49bb93aab27d07a65dc0f/tumblr_mix7t2MbiI1qagu44o7_500.gif
"Hey, chief, I might be wrong, but I think we're flying into a mountain. This makes me feel... scared of the mountain.
One thing we could do is pull up and fly over the mountain. How does that sound to...
"
 

July 4, 2014 9:01 am  #34


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

Right, that convinces me, Marta. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png


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Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

July 4, 2014 9:22 am  #35


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

Yep, like commit murder.


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July 4, 2014 9:24 am  #36


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

gently69 wrote:

SolarSystem wrote:

For me a very dark twist would be Moriarty being "the other one" and Mycroft and his mother knowing about this and covering it up for years. When Sherlock finds out... well... I have no idea about the why and how yet, but I certainly would love it. 

Oh yes, that could be interesting.

@Marta
Mary tried everything to make John happy? Well strange way she did ... http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

 

I think first and foremost she tried everything to make herself happy. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/normal.png


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?"

http://picload.org/image/lcpldgo/berlinsigneu2.jpghttp://picload.org/image/lcpldgc/berlinsigneu3.jpghttp://picload.org/image/lcpldgw/berlinsigneu.jpghttp://picload.org/image/wcodogr/jungssignatur.jpg

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

July 4, 2014 10:11 am  #37


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

To some extent most people in the world try to make happy themselves in the first place http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png
I just can't think of Mary as a bad person. I think she is just lost. She did terrible things in her past, finally she found happines and peace with John, and when she thought that she will spend rest of her life like that her past came back. So, to some extent, I don't blame her that she was trying to keep her happines, even when she was doing it in hmm... not ordinary way.


***************************************************************************************************************************                                    
http://38.media.tumblr.com/ddadc75684f49bb93aab27d07a65dc0f/tumblr_mix7t2MbiI1qagu44o7_500.gif
"Hey, chief, I might be wrong, but I think we're flying into a mountain. This makes me feel... scared of the mountain.
One thing we could do is pull up and fly over the mountain. How does that sound to...
"
 

July 4, 2014 11:02 am  #38


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

And in the end, she didn't kill CAM or Sherlock.

Last edited by besleybean (July 4, 2014 11:03 am)


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July 4, 2014 11:04 am  #39


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

Okay, then definitely Sherlock is the bad one.


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Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

July 4, 2014 11:14 am  #40


Re: Possible "dark twists" in S4

30 seconds into the show every television in the country goes dark. And we spend the next 90 minutes listening to a criminal mastermind repeating the words 'Did you miss me?' over a blank screen.

And every one of us watches to the very end.

 

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