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March 27, 2014 8:03 pm  #21


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

SolarSystem wrote:

Although I would like to add that in TSoT we also see the living room of 221B as a refuge for the boys, at least up to a certain moment when Mrs. Hudson comes in with Tessa. But before they are disturbed Sherlock and John seem to be very comfortable there together. And I know, they aren't exactly sober, so it's probably not the 'real' Sherlock and John we see here. But it was one of those scenes which felt quite familiar to me and bit more like S1/2 than various other scenes did.

Oh yes, it was nearly domestic bliss again. Tipsy domestic bliss..http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/cute.png


I like your observation about the hallway as symbol for their neither/nor state, tobe! I also thought it was a symbol for transition - they shared their first moment as friends in the hallway in ASiP when they giggled after the taxi chase, and Sherlock deduced correctly that John would be a part of his world after this. Now in TEH, as John has built his life very much seperate from Sherlock during the hiatus, their true reunion happens in exactly the same place, and it´s clear again that both will be part of each other´s life after this.

 

March 31, 2014 3:25 pm  #22


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

I am still trying to process my feelings about season 3: my first reaction to TEH was a mixed one and even TSoT didn't convince me completely after the first viewing, while HLV was a love at the first sight. I came to embrace the season after the second, third and so on viewing, but I do wonder why these multiple viewings were needed: I mean it with the first and especially second season it was an immediate impact. I suppose it could have something to do with how packed the third season was: it left me a little dizzy, like a ride on a rollercoaster, I did have a feeling at least four or five episodes would be needed to tell everything they squezzed in just three, or rather two, because TEH was a kind of appendix to TRF, in spite of all. 

 

March 31, 2014 8:40 pm  #23


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

miriel, I ask myself the same questions and I'm still unsure about the answer.
I guess the most simple answer would be: My very first episode and series was ASiB/S2, I knew absolutely nothing about it, had no expectations... and it blew me away. I wonder what might have happened if my very first episode had been TEH and I had known nothing about "Sherlock"... would I have been equally impressed? I really don't know, but I suspect that expectations sometimes can do more damage than good.
And still, I can't deny the fact that S3 has a different feel to me than S1/2, and that's after I have watched all three episodes several times now. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/errr.png


 

Last edited by SolarSystem (March 31, 2014 8:42 pm)


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?"
http://picload.org/image/wcodogr/jungssignatur.jpg

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

April 2, 2014 6:04 am  #24


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

@tobe: that is one beautiful observation you made there. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.png


------------------------------------------------------------------

"When you walk with Sherlock Holmes, you see the battlefield" M.H.

"My brother has the brain of scientist or a philosopher, and yet he elects to be a detective...what might we deduce about his heart?" M.H.

"Home is now behind you, the world is ahead."
 
 

April 2, 2014 6:30 am  #25


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

Yes, tobe, saw it only now. Wonderful observation. And if you add the heartbreaking scene with John alone in TEH and the confrontation with Mycroft coming from the lab the hallway becomes more and more important. Let us hope the boys will shift back into the flat for good. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

April 2, 2014 10:40 am  #26


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

SusiGo wrote:

Let us hope the boys will shift back into the flat for good. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png

Yes, yes, yes, where can I sign? http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

Seriously, that to me actually is a very important factor when it comes to the different feel of S3. I've said it before and I'll just say it again: domestic bliss in 221B is what makes the show very special, the chemistry between the boys is the most visible in those scenes. I want this back. I don't want John to be a visitor, I want him to be Sherlock's flatmate again. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/cry.png

 


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?"
http://picload.org/image/wcodogr/jungssignatur.jpg

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

April 2, 2014 10:41 am  #27


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

So do I. I can only hope that they will stick to canon and have them move in together again. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

April 2, 2014 12:21 pm  #28


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

SolarSystem wrote:

SusiGo wrote:

Let us hope the boys will shift back into the flat for good. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png

Yes, yes, yes, where can I sign? http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

Seriously, that to me actually is a very important factor when it comes to the different feel of S3. I've said it before and I'll just say it again: domestic bliss in 221B is what makes the show very special, the chemistry between the boys is the most visible in those scenes. I want this back. I don't want John to be a visitor, I want him to be Sherlock's flatmate again. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/cry.png

 

Yes! This! Me too, me too, me too!
Can we start a petition and send it to facebook sherlock?


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Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

http://picload.org/image/lcowadi/osajrand2.jpg
 

April 2, 2014 12:44 pm  #29


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

Maybe we should, but I'm pretty sure that Mofftiss will do what they wanna do. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

It would be very nice if they decided to stick to canon in this case soon - and also in case of Mary (finally). S3 always felt the most familiar to me when the boys were together in 221B.
And yes, I know, things change and sometimes change is important to keep things interesting - but not in this case, no, not in this case!
 

Last edited by SolarSystem (April 2, 2014 12:45 pm)


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?"
http://picload.org/image/wcodogr/jungssignatur.jpg

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

April 2, 2014 12:46 pm  #30


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

I think they should stick to canon in two major points - get the boys back in 221B and let Moriarty stay dead. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

April 8, 2014 10:39 am  #31


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

Amen to this. I am confident enough they will get rid of Mary - not only because of canon but also because Watson + baby + Sherlock is not a winning combination, but not so sure about Moriarty. I don't want him back, that's for sure. 

 

April 8, 2014 7:57 pm  #32


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

I'd be delighted to have Jim back...
But I trust Mark ad Steven in their writing decisions.


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April 9, 2014 7:37 am  #33


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

I don't know... while I came to love Moriarty as a villain (it wasn't immediate, he didn't convince me in TGG), I thought his arc was perfect such as it was. I also liked very much they way they used him in the 3rd season, especially in Sherlock's mind palace. But I was  also glad to have a new villain: I found Magnussen even more fascinating then Moriarty, and between them two I would prefer to see more of Magnussen than of Moriarty.

 

April 9, 2014 7:40 am  #34


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

Another miraculous fake death?!
Or do you mean in back story/flashback?


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April 9, 2014 7:45 am  #35


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

No, I don't want fake deaths. Was just telling that Magnussen as a villain was kind of even more fascinating presence, to me, then Moriarty. As for Moriarty, I wouldn't like seeing him back, because it would turn TRF into sort of ridiculous and also, because it would diminish him as character, IMO.

 

April 27, 2014 7:32 am  #36


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

I've been unsure whether to post this and I'm going to try very hard not to seem too critical.
But as time has passed since the end of season 3, I've become much clearer on how I feel about it.
And the truth is, that despite some stand out moments, and brilliant acting performances - overall, I don't like the direction it took
Seasons 1 and 2 maybe spoilt me - intriguing and exciting cases to solve and bubbling along in the background was the subtle development of the relationship between two misfits who clung to each other for company and purpose, into a deep and caring Friendship...fantastic.
I could live with the changes in that relationship in season 3, and understand the reasons why - that wasn't really the major issue for me.
What I don't like is that the personal issues and relationships took centre stage, with case solving (which, after all was Sherlock Holmes' raison d'être) becoming sidelined to the point of being almost non existent, while we watched John and Mary's love story, and its complications, and Sherlock struggling to adapt to the changes in his life.
We know the writers could have done all this as a backdrop to more prominent mysteries and cases.
We certainly know the Actors are capable of showing us what's going on in their characters' minds without us being beaten about the head with it!
I feel, in some ways, that it lost it's way a bit, and I'd love it to pull back to something more like a Detective show if or when there's a season 4.

Last edited by Tinks (April 27, 2014 7:35 am)


"And in the end,
The Love you take
Is equal to the Love you make"
                                             The Beatles
 

April 27, 2014 7:51 am  #37


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

Well from the start, let's be honest: you're not alone in those feelings.
Personally I thought this was the best series yet and think it's left everything beautifully placed for next seriesI
But let's talk it through!
I've said it before and I'll say it again:
I do think at least part of the problem is the system: 3x episodes per season, every 2 years.
I also think trying to stick to canon, holds them a bit.
They strongly felt they had to do the wedding: my views on marriage and weddings are...well, the same as  Sherlock!
So I was dreading that episode, as it transpired, I thought it was done very well.
But I'm jumping ahead: The Empty Hearse...incidentally, are you repeatedly watching the series?  Cos you need to, it grows on you.
But I digress:
I think with the Empty Hearse, they just had too much to do: The Resolution, The Reunion, introducing Mary and CAM etc.
Incidentally I was unhappy about John's rumoured reaction to Sherlock's return, so I was dreading that too.  As it happened, again, I think it's hilarious. 
They may also just have made the decision that this one series was going to be all about the heart and I'm ok with that.
I feel we did see character progression and for me a dramatic twist, now we have Sherlock the murderer.
I do feel they were returning to old themes of John the adrenalin junkie etc...
I loved CAM as the series villian...but I did miss Moriarty.
Over all, let's assess: the writers are the same...so I don't think that's the problem.
We had no Paul McGuigan and I do wonder if that was an issue...
I also hate to point out the obvious, but the BBC team have always said: Sherlock is about a detective, it's not a detective show,.

Last edited by besleybean (April 27, 2014 7:54 am)


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April 27, 2014 8:07 am  #38


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

I've watched each episode at least twice now, and there are moments of brilliance in all of them, and I agree with you besley, that if having the character development so much in the forefront was something they felt they needed to do before moving forward, then that would be fair enough.
But when Moffat has taken to saying things like "it's not a Detective show, but a show about a detective", and "it's not about Sherlock, it's about John Watson", then I'm not so sure that this approach IS just a one off!
I do tend to think that my problem is with the direction the writers are moving in, rather than the change of director, although there is something in both the writing and the directing that's begun to niggle me a little, but I'm not brave enough to say on here what that is!
I understand totally, too, that there has to be development in TV shows to avoid staleness.
I just don't like it when a show becomes something totally different; I'd hate that to happen with Sherlock!


"And in the end,
The Love you take
Is equal to the Love you make"
                                             The Beatles
 

April 27, 2014 8:23 am  #39


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

Oh god, twice is no where near enough!
Please don't hold back on your views.
I'm honestly keen to know what you think and I promise I'll be nice.
Mist people on here are, why would you be afraid to say what you think?
Wait til you get to 52, you say what you like and don';t care what anybody else thinks!


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April 27, 2014 9:40 am  #40


Re: Series 1/2 and series 3 - a comparison

You do not have to worry about being critical about the series and I understand your arguments, Tinks. With me, however, it is different. 
I am always interested in the characters" motives and personal backgrounds and emotions and for me many scenes in series 3 were real eye-openers. I think if someone appreciated the casework more than the personal elements series 3 will come as a sort of disappointment. Personally, I like the casework, too, but I love the show for the way it explores the characters feelings and relationships. And I suppose they always wanted to go in this direction and started where they did in order to show Sherlock's development as a human being. 
I have never regarded it as a pure crime/detective show. The BBC themselves seem to put it in the drama category and IMO this is where it belongs. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png

Last edited by SusiGo (April 27, 2014 9:40 am)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

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