BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012.


You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



March 12, 2014 9:14 pm  #1


Will the kid die too?

It's canon that Mary dies and most people are expecting it to happen at some point in Series 4. They could always go a different route and have her in some witness protection programme where John could never see her again; or in prison for the rest of her life, but whatever happens, we know they are going to get her out of the picture.

What then, do you think will happen to Baby Watson? It would be quite shocking to kill a child after its been born, even for Moftiss. Killing it whilst its still in the womb is generally more acceptable. So, maybe a miscarriage?

Or do you think the baby will survive? If so, how can it be a part of Sherlock and John's life? Sherlock, John & The Baby? Sounds like a trashy sitcom about a gay couple bringing up a kid.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.

Independent OSAJ Affiliate

 

March 13, 2014 8:44 am  #2


Re: Will the kid die too?

Killing off the child after it is born seems just plain cruel to me, and I too somehow can't imagine Gatiss and Moffat doing such a thing.
Letting the child die together with Mary why she is still pregnant is also a horrible option, but a little easier to swallow than the first one.
The question also is where series 4 will continue in the story line, right where they left off would be the only option then. It also is the only option that makes sense considering the imminent "Moriarty" threat...
So Mary will be still pregnant when we see her again, but then she would have to die right in the first episode or even at the beginning of it.
I really don't know anymore. I certainly don't want John and Sherlock to raise a child together in Baker Street because, yes, it seems a bit like a cheap sitcom, or a very bad and silly movie from the sixties. *ughh*

Maybe Mary dies towards the end of season 4 and the child goes off to live with Mary's parents or something (just because Mary has changed her identity doesn't mean she doesn't have a family that she left behind somewhere in the States). Would be the most humane solution. The child survives, lives on, grows up with its grandparents and John could visit time and again and still be a father.
John and Sherlock would then be free to solve their cases together and take up their "old" life, if possible (which to me seems less and less likely considering the way things have developed in series 3, it would include a really great turn-around character development wise, as much as I would love to see them back together again, I don't know if it would seem a credible development to me as things stand now.)

I really don't know how Mofftiss are going to play this. After series three and the alterations they brought to the storyline in comparison to the original Holmes Canon (e.g. introducing the Holmes parents) I am not sure anymore about what to expect.


------------------------------------------------------------------

"When you walk with Sherlock Holmes, you see the battlefield" M.H.

"My brother has the brain of scientist or a philosopher, and yet he elects to be a detective...what might we deduce about his heart?" M.H.

"Home is now behind you, the world is ahead."
 
 

March 13, 2014 9:43 am  #3


Re: Will the kid die too?

Maybe she will die in labour, together with the child. It doesn't happen very often in the UK becouse of standards of obstetric care but sadly it does happen. I hope that both Mary and the baby are going to be OK. I think I could be OK with her moving away with the child but I don't want to see them killed one way or another.

 

March 13, 2014 9:47 am  #4


Re: Will the kid die too?

I don't see how the child could  just go and be brought up by Mary's original parents (over in America for example). John is still the father's child and perfectly capable to bring her/him up on his own and I think that, in reality, that's the option he would go for. Although obviously that doesn't work for the storyline.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.

Independent OSAJ Affiliate

     Thread Starter
 

March 13, 2014 9:50 am  #5


Re: Will the kid die too?

Always provided that John is indeed the father of the child. 
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

March 13, 2014 10:14 am  #6


Re: Will the kid die too?

Yes I know, given John's character the most likely option for him would be to look after the child himself, and in real life I would applaud his decision, I just don't know how to combine this with what I hope the show will be like next season (more cases and action than in series three, probably with a darker twist).

I don't know, but I really don't think that John isn't the father. This is something I've never doubted.

Last edited by the_dancing_woman (March 13, 2014 10:18 am)


------------------------------------------------------------------

"When you walk with Sherlock Holmes, you see the battlefield" M.H.

"My brother has the brain of scientist or a philosopher, and yet he elects to be a detective...what might we deduce about his heart?" M.H.

"Home is now behind you, the world is ahead."
 
 

March 13, 2014 10:19 am  #7


Re: Will the kid die too?

I do not think John would abandon the child. But as so many people apparently want to get rid of the child at any price because it destroys the show (I was honestly shocked at many reactions, also here on the board) I just threw in the idea. 
For me having a child in a show does not mean cheap comedy. A child does not destroy a show. But I know that there are other opinions. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

March 13, 2014 10:28 am  #8


Re: Will the kid die too?

I get what you mean Susi, but as I said before I just can't bring this in line with the kind of show Sherlock is. And let's face it, we are not talking about a real child in real life, but a fictional one. Nobody would want any of this to happen in real life. I mean already starting with wanting for the mother to die...

I could possibly see Mrs. Hudson looking after the kid, but she is an elderly woman and it would be quite a demanding task for her.
I want to 'get rid off' the child because the Sherlock world seems a place too dangerous for a child to grow up in. Imagine what a pressure point that would be in the future!! And I also remember when there was a baby in the X-files, it certainly did the show no good at all.
So the option would be for Sherlock to change and be less and less the kind of show was in series one and two case-wise, which I would deeply regret. I loved series 3, but I kind of think, 'oh well, so we had this comedy break, now it's time to get back to business and handle some real cases', more the way it was in HLV.


------------------------------------------------------------------

"When you walk with Sherlock Holmes, you see the battlefield" M.H.

"My brother has the brain of scientist or a philosopher, and yet he elects to be a detective...what might we deduce about his heart?" M.H.

"Home is now behind you, the world is ahead."
 
 

March 13, 2014 11:17 am  #9


Re: Will the kid die too?

I have to think of a family dog right now and I don't like it.
I still can not imagine Sherlock (the show) with a baby. But it wouldn't be the first time they surprise me, so, I'll just wait and see..... 


__________________________________

"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

March 13, 2014 11:34 am  #10


Re: Will the kid die too?

I think it would be possible to keep the baby alive without devoting to much of a screen time to the care giving activities. If Mary really wants the domestic bliss and nothing more what is wrong with her staying at home and looking after the baby? Meanwhile Sherlock and John can carry on solving cases.

 

March 13, 2014 11:48 am  #11


Re: Will the kid die too?

British social care will have one look at John′s, Mary′s and Sherlock′s lifestyle and they will take the child away immediately to save it from their negative influence.
 


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

March 13, 2014 12:13 pm  #12


Re: Will the kid die too?

nakahara wrote:

British social care will have one look at John′s, Mary′s and Sherlock′s lifestyle and they will take the child away immediately to save it from their negative influence.
 

Lol I very much doubt it. In a typical tick box assesment carried out by a social worker with huge case load and no time they will come out as model parents. Particularly if they let Mary do the most of the talking. That wouldn't be a bad think as I don't have any doubts in their ability to parent adequatly.

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot admiration for my collegues from social services but I don't have much feith in the system.

 

 

March 13, 2014 12:59 pm  #13


Re: Will the kid die too?

Looking at the size of Mary's bump I think we maybe beyond miscarriage and into still birth teritory. On one hand it's semantics and on the other it realy isn't. I think if they took this route it would all most likely happen off screen and we would be told that Mary lost the baby. I really don't see them going into details (for good reasons).

 

March 13, 2014 1:09 pm  #14


Re: Will the kid die too?

That would be very morbid for such a funny show. I hope they will find another way to cope with a child than killing it.


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

March 13, 2014 1:12 pm  #15


Re: Will the kid die too?

I love your idea, nakahara, it is both funny and intriguing 
They might get a health worker assigned in S4 for assistance with household and baby and stuff, 8 hrs a week   

Last edited by Harriet (March 13, 2014 1:12 pm)


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

March 13, 2014 1:22 pm  #16


Re: Will the kid die too?

They will find a babysitter.
Later the babysitter will be revealed as the Satan incarnate, but that is a normal occurence in this show.


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

March 13, 2014 1:30 pm  #17


Re: Will the kid die too?

Very good idea. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

March 13, 2014 1:40 pm  #18


Re: Will the kid die too?

nakahara wrote:

They will find a babysitter.
Later the babysitter will be revealed as the Satan incarnate, but that is a normal occurence in this show.

Lol I could so see that happening.
 

 

March 13, 2014 1:51 pm  #19


Re: Will the kid die too?

What if we are on the wrong track anyway, what if Mary just doesn't die??
She could look after their child together with John and really stay at home while he solves cases with Sherlock, while occasionally helping out when domestic life gets too boring, with baby Watson then staying with Mrs. Hudson or Molly or Lestrade (laughing tears thinking of Lestrade babysitting while being on duty) or just a professional babysitter. And things just fit into place much better than we all imagine right now. Only problem I still see is how to keep the child out of the line of danger, considering criminals like Moriarty who have no respect for human lives in general and given the writers obsession with 'pressure points' so far. Possibly they are just going to drop that in series 4.
Or John and Mary have another major fall-out in connection with Mary's past (possibly with relations to a case and an imminent threat to Mary's live) and Mary just goes away into hiding while taking the child with her, which would leave us with a heart broken John once again.

But who knows, as I wrote before, anything seems possible now after the alterations that have already been brought to the show last season with regards to canon. (I don't know if anyone has heard any more substantial rumours yet concerning serie 4)

Mary dies in canon, yes, the question is how closely are they going to follow the Holmes canon in the future? Also she doesn't die right away there, but lives on for quite a while. I think she dies during hiatus if I remember correctly (?), and that was when Holmes and Watson had known each other for a long time already.

Like with many things concerning Sherlock's future I am really torn there, sometimes I really just want Mary to die and things to go back to just John and Sherlock and I also think it would make for a dramatic cliffhanger at the end of series 4, then again killing her off seems like such a shame after creating this really interesting and controversial character with her. And, yeah, I really, really like Amanda Abbington, sending her off into hiding would always hold the potential of her coming back.
 

Last edited by the_dancing_woman (March 13, 2014 1:52 pm)


------------------------------------------------------------------

"When you walk with Sherlock Holmes, you see the battlefield" M.H.

"My brother has the brain of scientist or a philosopher, and yet he elects to be a detective...what might we deduce about his heart?" M.H.

"Home is now behind you, the world is ahead."
 
 

March 13, 2014 2:00 pm  #20


Re: Will the kid die too?

nakahara wrote:

They will find a babysitter.
Later the babysitter will be revealed as the Satan incarnate, but that is a normal occurence in this show.

Alternatively, the baby will be revealed as Satan incarnate
 
I suspect that the only way to resolve this without killing off a baby or a pregnant woman is for Mary to disappear; the last scene at the airfield shows her in some distress over Moriaty's apparent return, so there's a possible link with him. Belis has noted that Mary's moral compass isn't wired the way we normally think of them; she is self protective, and if her life is seriously threatened, particularly by an utter lunatic who thinks wrapping people in explosives is a fun thing to do, I don't think she would hang around to fight the good fight.

If she did disappear then it's unlikely that Sherlock could find the time to track her down, even if he wanted to; he is, after all, charged with finding out what the hell is going on with the apparent return of Moriarty. That's what lifted his death sentence, and I doubt that Mycroft would or could deflect the interest of people like M.

I have previously speculated that there might be a rerun of the Mycroft and John scene in ASiB, where they are wondering what to tell Sherlock about Irene, but this time with Mycroft and Sherlock wondering what to tell John about Mary;  I think there might be some hint of that, not least because Moftiss are so fond of rerunning things through their audiences brains, with subtle, and sometimes not so subtle, changes.

 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum