BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012.


You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



March 13, 2014 1:40 pm  #21


Re: Will the kid die too?

nakahara wrote:

They will find a babysitter. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png

Later the babysitter will be revealed as the Satan incarnate, but that is a normal occurence in this show. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png

Lol I could so see that happening.
 

 

March 13, 2014 1:51 pm  #22


Re: Will the kid die too?

What if we are on the wrong track anyway, what if Mary just doesn't die??
She could look after their child together with John and really stay at home while he solves cases with Sherlock, while occasionally helping out when domestic life gets too boring, with baby Watson then staying with Mrs. Hudson or Molly or Lestrade (laughing tears thinking of Lestrade babysitting while being on duty) or just a professional babysitter. And things just fit into place much better than we all imagine right now. Only problem I still see is how to keep the child out of the line of danger, considering criminals like Moriarty who have no respect for human lives in general and given the writers obsession with 'pressure points' so far. Possibly they are just going to drop that in series 4.
Or John and Mary have another major fall-out in connection with Mary's past (possibly with relations to a case and an imminent threat to Mary's live) and Mary just goes away into hiding while taking the child with her, which would leave us with a heart broken John once again.

But who knows, as I wrote before, anything seems possible now after the alterations that have already been brought to the show last season with regards to canon. (I don't know if anyone has heard any more substantial rumours yet concerning serie 4)

Mary dies in canon, yes, the question is how closely are they going to follow the Holmes canon in the future? Also she doesn't die right away there, but lives on for quite a while. I think she dies during hiatus if I remember correctly (?), and that was when Holmes and Watson had known each other for a long time already.

Like with many things concerning Sherlock's future I am really torn there, sometimes I really just want Mary to die and things to go back to just John and Sherlock and I also think it would make for a dramatic cliffhanger at the end of series 4, then again killing her off seems like such a shame after creating this really interesting and controversial character with her. And, yeah, I really, really like Amanda Abbington, sending her off into hiding would always hold the potential of her coming back.
 

Last edited by the_dancing_woman (March 13, 2014 1:52 pm)


------------------------------------------------------------------

"When you walk with Sherlock Holmes, you see the battlefield" M.H.

"My brother has the brain of scientist or a philosopher, and yet he elects to be a detective...what might we deduce about his heart?" M.H.

"Home is now behind you, the world is ahead."
 
 

March 13, 2014 2:00 pm  #23


Re: Will the kid die too?

nakahara wrote:

They will find a babysitter. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png

Later the babysitter will be revealed as the Satan incarnate, but that is a normal occurence in this show. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png

Alternatively, the baby will be revealed as Satan incarnate
 
I suspect that the only way to resolve this without killing off a baby or a pregnant woman is for Mary to disappear; the last scene at the airfield shows her in some distress over Moriaty's apparent return, so there's a possible link with him. Belis has noted that Mary's moral compass isn't wired the way we normally think of them; she is self protective, and if her life is seriously threatened, particularly by an utter lunatic who thinks wrapping people in explosives is a fun thing to do, I don't think she would hang around to fight the good fight.

If she did disappear then it's unlikely that Sherlock could find the time to track her down, even if he wanted to; he is, after all, charged with finding out what the hell is going on with the apparent return of Moriarty. That's what lifted his death sentence, and I doubt that Mycroft would or could deflect the interest of people like M.

I have previously speculated that there might be a rerun of the Mycroft and John scene in ASiB, where they are wondering what to tell Sherlock about Irene, but this time with Mycroft and Sherlock wondering what to tell John about Mary;  I think there might be some hint of that, not least because Moftiss are so fond of rerunning things through their audiences brains, with subtle, and sometimes not so subtle, changes.

 

March 13, 2014 2:34 pm  #24


Re: Will the kid die too?

Canon is an odd reason to for killing Mary off - yes, she dies there. But for one she dies during the hiatus and two, Watson is definitely married (again???) in two stories which are set shortly before Holmes retirement. Considering that Mary's dead was an unimportant matter in canon and John now meet her during the hiatus, you really need no excuse to delay her passing. After all, Canon Watson was allowed multiple years of domestic bliss too. So Mary might die at one point (she is certainly the regular with the lowest survival chance on the show), but it doesn't have to happen next season.
In fact, if the child survives, it makes her survival chances much higher because she will be needed to look after the child while John is off into danger with Sherlock.

 

March 13, 2014 3:27 pm  #25


Re: Will the kid die too?

Of course they may do that. But I honestly wonder how many fans they would lose over such a development. For many fans the Sherlock-John relationship is the main focus and the thing they love most about the show. And Mary does change the dynamics, even if she is in the background looking after the child (which I for the life of me cannot imagine her do). 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

March 13, 2014 3:39 pm  #26


Re: Will the kid die too?

SusiGo wrote:

Of course they may do that. But I honestly wonder how many fans they would lose over such a development. For many fans the Sherlock-John relationship is the main focus and the thing they love most about the show. And Mary does change the dynamics, even if she is in the background looking after the child (which I for the life of me cannot imagine her do). 

I must confess that I too have difficulty in seeing Mary content to sit at home looking after the baby, whilst John and Sherlock are off adventuring together. I think ACD knew very well that it was almost impossible to fit suburban domestic bliss for Watson into the framework of the stories; it takes attention away from the centrepiece, and that is never good...
 

 

March 13, 2014 4:04 pm  #27


Re: Will the kid die too?

Hm. Fine. They could just let her "vanish" slowly in the background taking care of the baby. That could be possible somehow. Maybe.
But John. He would never, ever again move into 221 B. And then it will be me who will look very sadly at his empty chair.

Though I really would like to see a bit more of Mary - I loved her in the Ep1 and 2 - I would prefer her being an episode in John's and Sherlock's life which will be closed completely one day.


__________________________________

"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

March 13, 2014 4:37 pm  #28


Re: Will the kid die too?

But she isn't exactly the type who sits back while John storms into battle either.

In any case, I think if it works or not, it will depend entirely on how the writers do it. And I doubt that the fandom will figure that much in their plans because, well, they can't satisfy everyone either way. There was already a lot of screaming before the third season aired over the simple prospect of adding Mary into the mix or John getting married. They did it anyway and even a lot of sceptic fans were happy with it. Mary is already pretty popular in the fandom...just look her up on printerest, no other "Mary Watson" or "Mary Morstan" from any adaptation has so many results (most don't have any at all). There is already cute hedgehog Mary, wallpapers, there are OT3 stories on AO3, in short, she gets more acceptance and attention than ANY Mary Morstan ever (not that there are that many to begin with).

As long as the episodes will full of moments featuring John and Sherlock deep in Agape, I think most of the fandom will be satisfied...with or without Mary.

 

March 13, 2014 4:55 pm  #29


Re: Will the kid die too?

Hm, not quite convinced...
She had too annoying moments for my likes in the whole relationship of the two leaders, or do I have to say now there are three of them?
But this is about Baby Watson: Being an MD for pediatrics and raising three kids I'm definetely not fond of killing kids on-screen. I really LOVE good crime stories but I avoid them like pest and cholera when it comes to killing children... I also see now evidence that the baby isn't John's. When I read Mofftiss-interviews my prediction for the moment would be both Mary and the kid will stay. I have to say that I would probably be one of the fans to quit. Just not my show, not the one I fell head over heels in love with.
I agree Amanda is popular, I just don't feel she had to ...well.. take over the show.
 


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

http://picload.org/image/lcowadi/osajrand2.jpg
 

March 13, 2014 4:59 pm  #30


Re: Will the kid die too?

You mean you see "no evidence" right? Just for clarification.

I don't think that she took over the show...it's more that the fans concentrate so much on her that they have totally forgotten that the whole season was about John's and Sherlock's relationship. The whole freaking wedding was about how Sherlock feels about it and how it might or might not change his relationship with John.  Even in HLV she was more a catalyst than anything else.

 

March 13, 2014 5:16 pm  #31


Re: Will the kid die too?

Ok, so mistyping never happens to you.
But back to baby Watson: so we agree it should actually not die, as it is too cruel a thing. And we have had enough of grieving John. So no possibility there. Second option that they ( and I can't seperate a toddler from its mother, sorry @swan) move in the background. Might be less of a " here they are! Like them or quit fandom!" choice, I actually could do with that, if it's done in a decent way.
It's just that I have a feeling under my skin from scanning interviews that neither Mofftiss nor Amanda want that.


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

http://picload.org/image/lcowadi/osajrand2.jpg
 

March 13, 2014 5:29 pm  #32


Re: Will the kid die too?

It does, I just asked because I wasn't sure if you perhaps meant that something was mentioned in the interviews which now convinced you, so I asked. Apparently not.

Want what? Moving them into the background or doing what they think what is right, no matter what the fandom says?

 

March 13, 2014 5:36 pm  #33


Re: Will the kid die too?

@mrshouse, no reason to be harsh. I actually read your post wrong. No or now makes quite a difference here. I had to read it again after Swan asked.

@Swan. "In any case, I think if it works or not, it will depend entirely on how the writers do it. And I doubt that the fandom will figure that much in their plans..."
I fully agree with you and (God forbid!) I hope there will be NO influence from the fans.
I still trust in their "independence" and their ability to create a great show.
And I think it is a bit... "hasty" to say "I would quit the show and the fandom". Because it's all up to them and I trust them. 

Last edited by Mattlocked (March 13, 2014 5:37 pm)


__________________________________

"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

March 13, 2014 5:45 pm  #34


Re: Will the kid die too?

Yeah, I admit the very idea that Moriarty might be alive makes me cringe....but that doesn't mean that it is impossible to sell in a way that I end up liking the twist nevertheless. Remember how unpopular Scott's rendition of Moriarty originally was, until season two rolled along and a lot of his critics got into his craziness?

 

March 13, 2014 5:52 pm  #35


Re: Will the kid die too?

I feel like they could honestly do anything with this show and make it work, somehow.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.

Independent OSAJ Affiliate

http://9.asset.soup.io/asset/1715/0057_6c7d.gif
     Thread Starter
 

March 13, 2014 5:53 pm  #36


Re: Will the kid die too?

Swanpride wrote:

Yeah, I admit the very idea that Moriarty might be alive makes me cringe....

Oh yeah, me too, although I love Andrew. But again: We don't know today if and how he will be back. (Although I noticed he lately talked about his role as Moriarty in the present time again..... Before he was like "I did...." and "it was...." Hm.)

Swanpride wrote:

...but that doesn't mean that it is impossible to sell in a way that I end up liking the twist nevertheless. Remember how unpopular Scott's rendition of Moriarty originally was, until season two rolled along and a lot of his critics got into his craziness?

No, I don't remember, as I did join the fandom kind of belated.  But it shows that we just don't know. But what else should we do while we are waiting?    As long as it stays fun, it's okay to speculate and think over several possibilities.
 


__________________________________

"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

March 14, 2014 4:09 pm  #37


Re: Will the kid die too?

I think the infamous picture of a horned Mary..were cuckold horns.(wiki it )
I don't think the baby is Johns..and there is ambiguous evidence Mary may have cheated.
Maybe John wouldn't abandon it , if Mary died , but if the real father..or Marys real family were revealed he would have no choice or claim.
It's likely the marriage isn't even valid anyway.

Sorry...controversial i know.....

 

March 14, 2014 5:02 pm  #38


Re: Will the kid die too?

lil wrote:

I think the infamous picture of a horned Mary..were cuckold horns.(wiki it )
I don't think the baby is Johns..and there is ambiguous evidence Mary may have cheated.
Maybe John wouldn't abandon it , if Mary died , but if the real father..or Marys real family were revealed he would have no choice or claim.
It's likely the marriage isn't even valid anyway.

Sorry...controversial i know.....

 
The marriage isn't valid; that's a straightforward legal point. The rest is more complex, but I wonder if Moftiss are whispering 'Norbury' in our ears...

 

March 14, 2014 9:59 pm  #39


Re: Will the kid die too?

That makes me remember the scene with Mary's ex at the wedding, when she wanted to hug him but he rejected her.
Maybe he is the father.


__________________________________

"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

March 14, 2014 10:32 pm  #40


Re: Will the kid die too?

Mattlocked wrote:

That makes me remember the scene with Mary's ex at the wedding, when she wanted to hug him but he rejected her.
Maybe he is the father.

I think the 'rejection' was more an expression of abject terror than anything else; Sherlock had put the fear of Dog into him...
 

 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum