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March 14, 2014 8:38 pm  #41


Re: John Watson in S4

I wouldn't worry, Stoertebeker; we're all confused by S3.

You make the very interesting point that, if HLV had come directly after TEH, John's behaviour would seem more comprehensible; I think perhaps Moftiss were a tad heavy handed in hitting us over the head with the fact that John, contrary to what Sherlock says about his relationship with Mary, isn't actually happy in his suburban wedded bliss.

And they do that before the big reveal of Mary's (possibly) former life, so there can be no doubt that it's the life and relationship now with Mary that's the problem, not the knowledge of her former life. We have been speculating about John's past, and wondering whether his propensity for going berserk is what led to his parting company with the Army, so I think his unwillingness to accept that he may be less than perfect himself is part and parcel of a larger problem.

John can be incredibly sweet and charming, but he can also behave with all the tact and discretion of a charging rhino, so he too is sending mixed messages; I can see that Sherlock has become a great deal more mature in S3, and I very much hope that John will do so in S4. I'm not at all sure how that might happen..

 

March 15, 2014 7:24 pm  #42


Re: John Watson in S4

My two pennies' worth, probably a little off the conversation slightly...

I think Sherlock and John are at their best when under pressure, so I want to see more of that in s4. With only 3 episodes....if they're going to kill Mary off it should happen off camera, with the start of S4 dealing with Moriarty's "return" and Johns grief. And then I want to see John snapped back into action by Sherlock.
And I would actually like to see john show off his medical skills, like, properly. Not just tap cheeks and ask "are you ok?". As Sherlock says, he solves crimes and John saves lives. So back to basics would work well for me.

I must admit I also loved seeing Sherlock more vulnerable in s3, so in an ideal world I'd like to see more of that


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I'm clueing for looks

http://now-here-this.timeout.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/tumblr_m37miwpOiE1qa83duo1_r1_500.gif
 

March 15, 2014 9:10 pm  #43


Re: John Watson in S4

I would prefer S4 not to include John attacking Sherlock; it's not much to ask, but on present form it may be too much to ask...

 

March 15, 2014 9:32 pm  #44


Re: John Watson in S4

clareiow wrote:

And I would actually like to see john show off his medical skills, like, properly. Not just tap cheeks and ask "are you ok?". As Sherlock says, he solves crimes and John saves lives. So back to basics would work well for me.

I would love to see that too. If they can portray it in a way that won't have me shouting 'That's not how it's done!' at the TV then it will be bonus points.
 

 

March 15, 2014 9:52 pm  #45


Re: John Watson in S4

Myself, I would be very dissatisfied if Mary died off screen.  Event though I know how it was delt with in the original stories.


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"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
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March 15, 2014 11:11 pm  #46


Re: John Watson in S4

tonnaree wrote:

Myself, I would be very dissatisfied if Mary died off screen.  Event though I know how it was delt with in the original stories.

 
As far as I remember, Moftiss said in an interview that they wouldn't do that. Well, with Moftiss you'll never know, but I don't think it's likely that Mary dies off-screen, would be a wasted opportunity for something really dramatic  .

Last edited by stoertebeker (March 15, 2014 11:12 pm)


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"There is a place for people like you, the desperate, the terrified. The ones with nowhere else to run."
"What place?"
"221B Baker Street."
 

March 16, 2014 2:55 am  #47


Re: John Watson in S4

I agree that John definitely has some serious character growth to do-- what I'd like to see in season four: I want *sweet* John back. I'd like for him to take off his mental blinders and learn to actually look at what's right in front of him; I'd like to see him not treat Sherlock like he's superhuman, without feelings--. And I just gotta say this-- I can do without him punching Sherlock ever again, to the extent that if it happens, I want Sherlock to *finally* hit him back, and/or tell him, "Don't you ever hit me again." And make it stick. I'd like to see John save Sherlock for once, or do some comforting . 
Less mean-spirited sarcasm. 

I'd love to see John use his medical knowledge, or use his bamfy tendencies in a good cause again. 

I'd prefer Mary take a ride on the river Styx with Charon, and maybe John could be a little less frantic about finding women to "get off" with, at least for one series.... Who knows, maybe they could be actually focused on a case?

 

 

March 16, 2014 8:35 am  #48


Re: John Watson in S4

I disagree, and not just because Sherlock was the one who originally threw the first punch at John (remember SIB?). What Sherlock did to John by letting him believe that he witnessed his suicide was so much worse than a simple punch.

Honestly, reading you posts it sounds as if John routinely beat Sherlock up, when in truth there were only two times when it happened...once after Sherlock hit him first, provoking him in order to prompt John into hitting him and again at the start of TEH, when John really had ample reason to fly off the handle. John didn't hit him for any of the experiments Sherlock did to him beforehand, for any insult, not even for making him believe that they would die in the next seconds.

 

March 16, 2014 3:08 pm  #49


Re: John Watson in S4

That's what I was thinking Swan.  I can't think of a single time John has punch Sherlock that Sherlock didn't kinda deserve it.  http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


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Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German   http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.gif
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
http://media-cache-ec3.pinimg.com/736x/aa/2b/35/aa2b352725f4c944599a3ea17cbfe44e.jpg    https://31.media.tumblr.com/bb0f8896a79d19602eeaea0254ff5ccd/tumblr_n5ztxjGDB61stgn3no1_500.jpg
 
 

March 16, 2014 4:54 pm  #50


Re: John Watson in S4

I think John might have gone a bit OTT in the opening scenes of TEH but the way I read it was that emphasis was on creating a slapstick comedy like scene rather then emphasising that John is a violent person. I could do without to many of such scenes in the next season though.

 

March 16, 2014 6:43 pm  #51


Re: John Watson in S4

Swanpride wrote:

I disagree, and not just because Sherlock was the one who originally threw the first punch at John (remember SIB?). What Sherlock did to John by letting him believe that he witnessed his suicide was so much worse than a simple punch.

Honestly, reading you posts it sounds as if John routinely beat Sherlock up, when in truth there were only two times when it happened...once after Sherlock hit him first, provoking him in order to prompt John into hitting him and again at the start of TEH, when John really had ample reason to fly off the handle. John didn't hit him for any of the experiments Sherlock did to him beforehand, for any insult, not even for making him believe that they would die in the next seconds.

Try to remember, I actually *don't* hate John, nor any of the chararcters, what I am saying is that the gag is old. On the other hand, yeah, the first time, Sherlock hit John to get him to hit back, (for purposes of the case)  John not only punched him, but then strangled him. John drew blood, (which might have been what he was after, so that's on him) but the strangling? Hmmm. 

By the end of TEH, Sherlock could be described as a victim of assault. I'm just saying that I'm tired of seeing it. I also don't want him hit by any more of his friends. People *can* actually talk things out. 

Conversely, if we're talking about "deserving" to be hit, what would we be saying if John, after finding out that Mary shot and technically killed his best friend, hit Mary upside the head? 

Maybe not even a punch, but a slap? Surely, she 'deserves' it, too. 

(Cue screaming)

Wait, that's not funny? Doesn't qualify as a gag?  Why?

Mind you, I don't actually mean that I think John should hit Mary, even if if she does "deserve" it--  I'm saying that the "gag" of friends and loved ones hitting each other for comedic value has gone stale, at least for me. 

If they're going to go that route, then at least let Sherlock fight back, and let them truly do a slpstick bit with flying pies and all. 
 

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (March 16, 2014 7:02 pm)

 

March 16, 2014 6:49 pm  #52


Re: John Watson in S4

Oh I'm wirh you. I don't like it at all and this was why I was dreading the Reunion.
As it hapepns, I think it was done very well and was hilarious...but I don't think it showed John in a very good light.
The fact that Sherlock doesn't hit back, says much for him.
And yes, I hope they're done with this joke now.

Last edited by besleybean (March 16, 2014 6:50 pm)


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March 16, 2014 7:01 pm  #53


Re: John Watson in S4

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

If they're going to go that route, then at least let Sherlock fight back, and let them truly do a slpstick bit with flying pies and all.

That's what was missing from that scene. A flying pie or two . There was potential there with it being a restaurant. ;)

 

March 16, 2014 7:09 pm  #54


Re: John Watson in S4

belis wrote:

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

If they're going to go that route, then at least let Sherlock fight back, and let them truly do a slpstick bit with flying pies and all.

That's what was missing from that scene. A flying pie or two . There was potential there with it being a restaurant. ;)

Now THAT would have been slapstick! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

 

March 16, 2014 7:53 pm  #55


Re: John Watson in S4

The reunion scene should start like that

http://imageshack.com/a/img691/5976/70tr.jpg


and finish with a cake fight.

 

March 16, 2014 8:27 pm  #56


Re: John Watson in S4

Maybe part of the problem was that the show seemed too disjointed in mood?  It's like it didn't know whether it wanted to be campy, or sad, or bittersweet, or ...slapstick?

So, I think I'd like more continuity -- a thread that connects the characterizations of all the characters, including John--- so their behavior rings "true."

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (March 16, 2014 8:27 pm)

 

March 16, 2014 9:03 pm  #57


Re: John Watson in S4

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

Maybe part of the problem was that the show seemed too disjointed in mood?  It's like it didn't know whether it wanted to be campy, or sad, or bittersweet, or ...slapstick?

So, I think I'd like more continuity -- a thread that connects the characterizations of all the characters, including John--- so their behavior rings "true."

I agree. In seasons 1 and 2 the episodes had more internal consistency. There was a theme and a certain atmosphare that was constant rhrough out the episode. For example The Hund was quite dark, the main emotion was fear, it was all about mystery. The Scandal was much lighter, frivolous with a lot of sexual tension. In season 3 the atmosphare changes multiple times within the same episode. It's much harder to sum up what the overall theme may be. I'm not sure if it's good or bad but it's deffinitely different.
 

 

March 16, 2014 9:17 pm  #58


Re: John Watson in S4

belis wrote:

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

Maybe part of the problem was that the show seemed too disjointed in mood?  It's like it didn't know whether it wanted to be campy, or sad, or bittersweet, or ...slapstick?

So, I think I'd like more continuity -- a thread that connects the characterizations of all the characters, including John--- so their behavior rings "true."

I agree. In seasons 1 and 2 the episodes had more internal consistency. There was a theme and a certain atmosphare that was constant rhrough out the episode. For example The Hund was quite dark, the main emotion was fear, it was all about mystery. The Scandal was much lighter, frivolous with a lot of sexual tension. In season 3 the atmosphare changes multiple times within the same episode. It's much harder to sum up what the overall theme may be. I'm not sure if it's good or bad but it's deffinitely different.
 

Aha! You just totally NAILED IT. 

 

March 16, 2014 11:00 pm  #59


Re: John Watson in S4

Oh, I don′t know – to me it seems as if every „Sherlock“ episode has an atmosphere of its own and it′s difficult to compare them. That holds for series 1 and 2 either – ASIP (funny adventurous romp), TBB (the procedural) and TGG (thriller) are nothing alike and it′s the same with SIB (humorous drama), HOTB (the horror) and TRF (tragic tale of antic proportion). As to series 3:
 
TEH was similar in tone to ASIP, but it was a bit quieter with an emphasis on characters rather than the plot.
TSOT was a pure ligh-hearted comedy.
HLV was very dark and sinister. I rewatched it yesterday and it was pure depression. If they didn′t include a few funny moments here and there it would be terribly bleak. I can quite understand why they decided to mix this dark morality tale with humour in some scenes. Moftiss are cruel but even they are not such sadists as to make their story unwatchable because of one tragic moment after another. Too much tragedy dumbs the audience and make them indifferent rather than moved.
 


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March 17, 2014 2:35 am  #60


Re: John Watson in S4

I think the point is more that in season one and two, every episode was pretty much stand-alone, while in season three the episodes together are one big case with some smaller cases thrown in. TEH is the Set-Up, TSOT is the middle part and HLV is the finale so to speak...as a logical consequence, TEH is a little bit disjointed because it is busy putting all the characters in the right position and introducing a riddle which won't be solved that episode, TSOT is especially sappy because it provides the set-up for the naturally dramatic finale in HLV. All the episodes work the best if you watch them in connection with each other, while beforehand, is didn't really matter.

 

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