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March 11, 2014 1:31 pm  #1


John Watson in S4

John′s behaviour in HLV stirred much controversy among fans of the show. He was almost accused of being heartless. So what are your sugestions – what should John do in S4 to be redeemed in your eyes?
 
In my opinion:
 
John should stop whining „Sherlock, do you have a plan?“ when something misfires and he should concieve a plan of his own when such thing happens. He looks ridiculous when he follows Sherlock into dangerous situations willingly and then, when a problem arises, he demands from his friend „solve everything quickly, it′s your doing that I′m in this mess“. He is an adult man and he knew well what he is getting into, it doesn′t suit him to be so whiny.
 
It would be really good if John saved Sherlock from danger or protected him in the same BAMFy manner as canonical John Watson saves and protects Sherlock Holmes in „Devil′s Foot“ and in „Illustrious Client“.
 
When confronted with the mysterious new Moriarty, John should abandon his ostrich tendencies, learn the truth about TRF and acknowledge that Sherlock′s fake suicide was at least party intent on saving his life and the lives of Lestrade and Mrs. Hudson.
 
Since John′s marriage with Mary Morstan (who doesn′t legally exist) is null and void, he should marry Sherlock secretly. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png

 


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March 11, 2014 2:59 pm  #2


Re: John Watson in S4

Plus, John should bring his beautiful sarcastic humour back - I′ve missed it.
 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

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     Thread Starter
 

March 11, 2014 3:33 pm  #3


Re: John Watson in S4

He doesn't have to redeem himself for me. I don't think he's whiny, I don't think he always demands an answer or a plan from Sherlock. He survived for two years without Sherlock - and yes, he got himself involved with an ex-killer-assassin-woman. He certainly should open his eyes to the truth once in a while, but apart from that I can really understand why he reacted in certains ways in S3.
 


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March 11, 2014 4:01 pm  #4


Re: John Watson in S4

I agree...he can be what he always was.

Some more scenes with Mycroft would be nice, though, since he is always at his sarcastic best in those....only one in a whole season was waaaaaaaaay too few. They need to reach an average of one per episode.

 

March 11, 2014 4:08 pm  #5


Re: John Watson in S4

I do not share the negative opinions about John. I can understand many of his reactions (although I really do not like the "drama queen" thing which is totally over the top IMO) and to me he is not at all callous or a psychological write-off. 

I would like to see his dry humour, his good-natured mockery of Sherlock, and, yes, I would like to see him save Sherlock in some way after Sherlock has done so much for him. And a bit of Mycroft and John together would be very welcome. 


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March 11, 2014 4:42 pm  #6


Re: John Watson in S4

SusiGo wrote:

I do not share the negative opinions about John. I can understand many of his reactions (although I really do not like the "drama queen" thing which is totally over the top IMO) and to me he is not at all callous or a psychological write-off. 

I would like to see his dry humour, his good-natured mockery of Sherlock, and, yes, I would like to see him save Sherlock in some way after Sherlock has done so much for him. And a bit of Mycroft and John together would be very welcome. 

 
I was unhappy with John's behaviour on a number of levels in S3, but much of it was because John himself doesn't seem to be in a good position to go forward into S4. He was deeply hurt by his exclusion from the Reichenbach plan, but seems unable to accept that there were valid reasons.

I cannot see any reason why Mycroft and Sherlock would include him in any plans to deal with the apparent return of Moriarty; why would they? And that in turn has still more potential for John to feel hurt, whereas I would instead love to see him going on adventures again, not sitting around angsting.

I would love to see the return of his dry humour and his good natured mockery; this is a species of English humour known as 'taking the piss out of someone' and John did it rather well. Sherlock understands it, and values it, and someday even Mycroft may succumb. But I don't know how the writers are going to get us there...

 

March 11, 2014 5:12 pm  #7


Re: John Watson in S4

John had some of the best, funniest and most sarcastic lines in the whole of Series 3. I thought he was the best thing IN Series 3, personally.

For Series 4, I'd like to see him save Sherlock's life, as you guys have already said, and to be running around with Sherlock solving cases more like the old days and with less of the tense bitterness between them that overshadowed the case we saw them work on in TEH.
 


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March 11, 2014 8:18 pm  #8


Re: John Watson in S4

Willow wrote:

I cannot see any reason why Mycroft and Sherlock would include him in any plans to deal with the apparent return of Moriarty; why would they?

I don't know about Mycroft, but when it comes to Sherlock: Why wouldn't he involve John? I really don't get it. The way I see it, Sherlock still trusts John, he loves John - otherwise he wouldn't have dealt with CAM the way he did, imo. I'm not sure about Sherlock and Mary, I'm not convinced that he really has forgiven her, I still suspect that he merely wants her to believe that. But Mary or no Mary, I don't think that Sherlock would not ask John to join him in this Moriarty matter.
 


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"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

March 11, 2014 8:51 pm  #9


Re: John Watson in S4

Above all, I don't think that John would allow Sherlock to take on Moriarty alone - again. In fact, this issue might come up next season, that Sherlock left him in the dust the first time around and John will be damned to allow him to do that again.

 

March 11, 2014 9:13 pm  #10


Re: John Watson in S4

SolarSystem wrote:

Willow wrote:

I cannot see any reason why Mycroft and Sherlock would include him in any plans to deal with the apparent return of Moriarty; why would they?

I don't know about Mycroft, but when it comes to Sherlock: Why wouldn't he involve John? I really don't get it. The way I see it, Sherlock still trusts John, he loves John - otherwise he wouldn't have dealt with CAM the way he did, imo. I'm not sure about Sherlock and Mary, I'm not convinced that he really has forgiven her, I still suspect that he merely wants her to believe that. But Mary or no Mary, I don't think that Sherlock would not ask John to join him in this Moriarty matter.
 

 
Well, Sherlock didn't invite him last time because he could not trust to John's discretion; I do not think that anything in S3 suggests that John has changed. Mary could extract information from him with no difficulty, and neither Mycroft nor Sherlock has any reason to trust Mary.

There is also the fact that Sherlock is now, in effect, on parole; not all of Mycroft's colleagues want him back in England. We saw James Bond's boss M suggesting that Mycroft was going easy on Sherlock; it really doesn't look good if Sherlock is associating with the husband of a known foreign agent, particularly when the reason for lifting his death sentence is that he must investigate and thwart a threat to England itself. There is always another plane, and another suicide mission, if Sherlock is perceived to be a security risk.

I agree entirely that Sherlock loves John but he knows him; John is no good at lying and no good at keeping secrets. About the only way I can see it working would be if Sherlock was feeding John misleading information in the knowledge that it would inevitably reach Mary, who might then pass it on; I can certainly see both Sherlock and Mycroft doing that.

Sherlock did not trust Mary in the same house as his unconscious parents and brother without her being unconscious as well; I don't think there's much room for doubt about his views of her. And Mycroft is not a man prepared to forgive and forget, particularly when it comes to the near death of his much loved brother; from his perspective John throwing the memory stick in the fire must look downright insane. As I have noted before, John has deliberately blindfolded himself and is therefore in no shape to walk the battlefield; he'll keep tripping over

 

March 11, 2014 9:31 pm  #11


Re: John Watson in S4

In Series 4 I want to see John shirtless.  
Shirtless John would makeme happy.

*giggles in the corner*

Last edited by tonnaree (March 11, 2014 9:31 pm)


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March 11, 2014 9:36 pm  #12


Re: John Watson in S4

Swanpride wrote:

Above all, I don't think that John would allow Sherlock to take on Moriarty alone - again. In fact, this issue might come up next season, that Sherlock left him in the dust the first time around and John will be damned to allow him to do that again.

John has no way of preventing it; I appreciate that he might wish to, but John will be in his GPs office, and going home to Mary, whilst Mycroft will be working with Sherlock as he did before. I'm hoping for Lestrade to get lots of screen time, along with Molly who must know whether Moriarty's body was really Moriarty's body.

It should be fascinating to see how Moftiss solve the problem of giving us back Dr John Watson, trusty and loyal comrade of Sherlock Holmes; what they can't do is write a Mycroft who would be prepared to let John endanger his brother at all, much less for reasons of sentiment. It's time to choose sides...
 

 

March 11, 2014 9:54 pm  #13


Re: John Watson in S4

Giving back????? I didn't got the impression that John was less a trusty friend this season.

 

March 11, 2014 10:17 pm  #14


Re: John Watson in S4

Swanpride wrote:

Giving back????? I didn't got the impression that John was less a trusty friend this season.

Well, apart from beating up Sherlock in the first episode and threatening him with more violence when he'd been shot in the last episode; as the old saying goes, 'with friends like these, who needs enemies?'




 

 

March 11, 2014 10:35 pm  #15


Re: John Watson in S4

Willow wrote:

Swanpride wrote:

Giving back????? I didn't got the impression that John was less a trusty friend this season.

Well, apart from beating up Sherlock in the first episode and threatening him with more violence when he'd been shot in the last episode; as the old saying goes, 'with friends like these, who needs enemies?'

 

But you can't forget that both times John was in extreme emotional distress.


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March 11, 2014 10:54 pm  #16


Re: John Watson in S4

nakahara wrote:

 
Since John′s marriage with Mary Morstan (who doesn′t legally exist) is null and void, he should marry Sherlock secretly. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png

 

Johnlock or no, this last point had occurred to me: I'm no expert on annulments but it seems like there could be grounds for declaring the Watson marriage invalid - thereby making it easier to get Mary out of the picture without killing her.

As for Sherlock's not including John in his Reichenbach plan - he may have had a valid concern but it seems to me that he took quite a chance by including so many other people. Does he really know the ability to lie/keep secrets of so many other people better than John's? He had to have a lot of trust in all those people, because they all, in a sense, had his life in their hands.

But I agree - I was not crazy about John almost killing Sherlock for being alive http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/lol.png
 and while I ABSOLUTELY understand John's emotional distress upon finding out about Mary - I felt like he took it out on Sherlock. And he was mad at Mary for lying to him and her shooting Sherlock wasn't as important to him.

 

March 12, 2014 7:02 pm  #17


Re: John Watson in S4

Willow wrote:

SolarSystem wrote:

Willow wrote:

I cannot see any reason why Mycroft and Sherlock would include him in any plans to deal with the apparent return of Moriarty; why would they?

I don't know about Mycroft, but when it comes to Sherlock: Why wouldn't he involve John? I really don't get it. The way I see it, Sherlock still trusts John, he loves John - otherwise he wouldn't have dealt with CAM the way he did, imo. I'm not sure about Sherlock and Mary, I'm not convinced that he really has forgiven her, I still suspect that he merely wants her to believe that. But Mary or no Mary, I don't think that Sherlock would not ask John to join him in this Moriarty matter.
 

 
Well, Sherlock didn't invite him last time because he could not trust to John's discretion; I do not think that anything in S3 suggests that John has changed. Mary could extract information from him with no difficulty, and neither Mycroft nor Sherlock has any reason to trust Mary.

There is also the fact that Sherlock is now, in effect, on parole; not all of Mycroft's colleagues want him back in England. We saw James Bond's boss M suggesting that Mycroft was going easy on Sherlock; it really doesn't look good if Sherlock is associating with the husband of a known foreign agent, particularly when the reason for lifting his death sentence is that he must investigate and thwart a threat to England itself. There is always another plane, and another suicide mission, if Sherlock is perceived to be a security risk.

I agree entirely that Sherlock loves John but he knows him; John is no good at lying and no good at keeping secrets. About the only way I can see it working would be if Sherlock was feeding John misleading information in the knowledge that it would inevitably reach Mary, who might then pass it on; I can certainly see both Sherlock and Mycroft doing that.

Sherlock did not trust Mary in the same house as his unconscious parents and brother without her being unconscious as well; I don't think there's much room for doubt about his views of her. And Mycroft is not a man prepared to forgive and forget, particularly when it comes to the near death of his much loved brother; from his perspective John throwing the memory stick in the fire must look downright insane. As I have noted before, John has deliberately blindfolded himself and is therefore in no shape to walk the battlefield; he'll keep tripping over

What do you suppose the series is going to be about if it's not about Sherlock and John's friendship and the way they work together as a team? That's what it's always about. It would be ridiculously boring if we just saw John going to work and then going back home to Mary. We've already seen him do that in TEH, they're not going to repeat things.
 


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March 12, 2014 7:22 pm  #18


Re: John Watson in S4

It sadens me to see how little faith some have in John.


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March 12, 2014 7:48 pm  #19


Re: John Watson in S4

Sherlock Holmes

I entirely agree that Sherlock needs to be about Sherlock and John at its heart; that is the iconic centrepiece that pulls us in, and Moftiss have to get us back there if it is to continue to be Sherlock.

But they have to do it in a vaguely plausible way, and John plus Mary plus baby in the suburbs isn't plausible, just as John being a GP staring at people's bunions isn't plausible, if we are going to get the thrill of the Game is On!

I am sure that when John opened his front door at the beginning of HLV he really did expect to see Sherlock there, needing his help to foil some dastardly villain or another, and that would have been wonderful for John, and for Sherlock, and for us. Instead it was the neighbour, and although we got Billy from canon in a somewhat weird way, I don't want Sherlock to be lonely, just as I don't want John isolated because of 'that wife of his'.

I appreciate that no doubt there all sorts of ideas which could be subtly teased out with John in suburbia but I would prefer cutting the Gordian knot; fortunately I think Mycroft is a dab hand with a pair of shears...

 

March 12, 2014 9:11 pm  #20


Re: John Watson in S4

Willow wrote:

Sherlock Holmes

I entirely agree that Sherlock needs to be about Sherlock and John at its heart; that is the iconic centrepiece that pulls us in, and Moftiss have to get us back there if it is to continue to be Sherlock.

But they have to do it in a vaguely plausible way, and John plus Mary plus baby in the suburbs isn't plausible, just as John being a GP staring at people's bunions isn't plausible, if we are going to get the thrill of the Game is On!

I am sure that when John opened his front door at the beginning of HLV he really did expect to see Sherlock there, needing his help to foil some dastardly villain or another, and that would have been wonderful for John, and for Sherlock, and for us. Instead it was the neighbour, and although we got Billy from canon in a somewhat weird way, I don't want Sherlock to be lonely, just as I don't want John isolated because of 'that wife of his'.

I appreciate that no doubt there all sorts of ideas which could be subtly teased out with John in suburbia but I would prefer cutting the Gordian knot; fortunately I think Mycroft is a dab hand with a pair of shears...

To put it bluntly...in an ideal world, we would see Mary killed off within the first episode of Series 4, in order to get the old dynamic back?


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