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April 2, 2014 7:56 am  #21


Re: "The two people I love most..."

May I?
*huggyhuggyhug*


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Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

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April 2, 2014 8:08 am  #22


Re: "The two people I love most..."

Just discovered this thread. And wow ... even for me who isn't into Johnlock that much ... everything you mentioned is absolutely convincing. Sherlock took enormous steps to state these things in his wedding speech and the reasons have to be strong emotions, strong feelings for John.


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April 2, 2014 10:42 am  #23


Re: "The two people I love most..."

Thank you for the hug mrshouse! 


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September 3, 2014 7:17 pm  #24


Re: "The two people I love most..."

Just rewatched the best man scene and there were two things striking me: 1) firstly, when John arrives at 221b it's all like truly having some guest around with this " mind if I interrupt?" " be my guest" which already feels wrong for me, too distanced.
2) secondly Johns entry phrase: " the big question!" Well, the big question for me would be " will you do me the honour of becoming my husband/wife". And mind how they are placed, John low, Sherlock standing, folding his hands, sort of awaiting indeed "the big question" . I may be over romanticizing, but if this isn't the true proposal I don't know what is.


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

http://picload.org/image/lcowadi/osajrand2.jpg
 

September 3, 2014 9:54 pm  #25


Re: "The two people I love most..."

I think the "big question" is really no question at all, because everybody (right, except Sherlock) knows that Sherlock will be best man anyway, no matter what.
I think John humours him with the wording, in a kind way.

I think, in a way, it is a proposal though. Apart from family, a best friend is the most important thing in life. That's what I think anyway about Sherlock and Mary - John makes sure he can have and love both, and chooses Sherlock to be the best friend, and Mary to be his wife. I don't know how other people define friendship, but for me, friendship is love - different to love in a relationship of course, but still love, not less, only different.

Not to annoy any Johnlockers, but does it really need kisses and holding hands on screen to prove that John and Sherlock love each other? I wonder.
I'm not a relationship Johnlocker, but a friendship Johnlocker. Uh, now I have to think, who of you has this wonderful signature picture "he is so in friendship with John"? I adore it, but I also wondered about that one. Because of course he is in love with him... he is his best friend! Maybe Johnlock needs a new definition of friendship.

(Note to myself: don't write in Johnlock threads while drunk, sure I will regret it. Second note: I never really understand the english phrasing concerning love, so maybe I'm expressing myself wrong here. Being in love, loving someone, fall in love with someone... maybe a german fellow can offer distinctive translation help?)


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September 3, 2014 10:14 pm  #26


Re: "The two people I love most..."

I see the same.  I see them as friends who love each other.   And although you wouldn't usually say that friends are in love, I think some friendship can have the characteristics of being in love, such as euphoria, jealousy, etc. 

Yes, it does look a little like a proposal, which is funny when John's proposal to Mary is interrupted by Sherlock and ends up taking place off screen!   But we all know the story is going to be about John and Sherlock in the end - that their relationship endures through the stories, so will endure through the TV series regardless (I think). 

 

September 4, 2014 1:34 am  #27


Re: "The two people I love most..."

I wonder what it says about John and Sherlock's friendship that

A) Sherlock doesn't even try to run Mary off like all the other girlfriends (and she likes him as well).
B) Sherlock is all set to die in HLV but then the thought of letting John down and leaving John vulnerable brings him back.

 

September 4, 2014 4:26 am  #28


Re: "The two people I love most..."

Whisky wrote:

I'm not a relationship Johnlocker, but a friendship Johnlocker. Uh, now I have to think, who of you has this wonderful signature picture "he is so in friendship with John"? I adore it, but I also wondered about that one. Because of course he is in love with him... he is his best friend! Maybe Johnlock needs a new definition of friendship.

That would be me. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


Whisky wrote:

(... Being in love, loving someone, fall in love with someone... maybe a german fellow can offer distinctive translation help?)

The difference between "to be in love" and "to love someone" is the same difference as between "verliebt sein" und "jemanden lieben". You usually use the first only in a romantic context, while the second one can also be used for friends, grandparents, sunrises and pizza. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png


So a non-Johnlocker would say that Sherlock loves John, but not that he is (falling) in love with John.

My signature is a wordplay that puts friendship in a position in that sentence where only the word love works semantically. (You are not "in friendship", you are "in love".)

Last edited by Schmiezi (September 4, 2014 4:28 am)


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September 4, 2014 6:24 am  #29


Re: "The two people I love most..."

Snootiegirl99 wrote:

I wonder what it says about John and Sherlock's friendship that

A) Sherlock doesn't even try to run Mary off like all the other girlfriends (and she likes him as well).
B) Sherlock is all set to die in HLV but then the thought of letting John down and leaving John vulnerable brings him back.

A. I don't think he deliberately runs off other girlfriends.  That's partly John's doing as well.  There's that scene in ASiB where Sherlock can't remember which girlfriend John's with (the boring teacher), but John also forgets which one she is, and that's what drives her off. 

B. I think he's very protective, and has protected and saved John before - I think it's in character that that would be a driver for him.  It's the same person who sacrificed two years of his life and went through hell to save John (and others, but John's his main pressure point).

 

September 4, 2014 9:14 am  #30


Re: "The two people I love most..."

Schmiezi wrote:

while the second one can also be used for friends, grandparents, sunrises and pizza. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

Pizza! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.png
Thanks for explaining!
 


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September 4, 2014 9:20 am  #31


Re: "The two people I love most..."

Just for the records @whisky: I don't consider this to be a serious johnlock-thread. It's open to discussion. And to be clear about this: the thing with shipping johnlock is not meant in an explicite way. We have lovely fan fic for that if we feel like it, it would be out of character with the show. It is about coming to terms with the fact that the other one is the most important person in the other ones life, with acknowlidging what they are prepared to do for each other, with making just a little commitment they belong together and don't have to ask each other out next to nursing the baby or helping wives with the laundry.


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

http://picload.org/image/lcowadi/osajrand2.jpg
 

September 4, 2014 10:39 am  #32


Re: "The two people I love most..."

mrshouse, I absolutely agree that this scene has all the ingredients a traditional proposal of marriage would have. From John's "So, the big question" to Sherlock being flabbergasted (although I agree that usually both parties are already prepared for the moment and know what's coming) and to John telling Sherlock how much Sherlock means to him.
I'm not an expert, but I doubt that the conversation would usually play out like this one when a groom asks his best friend to be is his best man. I assume that most men ask their friends over a beer or just give them a call or something equally randon. And yes, Sherlock ist not like 'most men', but still... it's a very, very emotional scene, and let's face it: we don't see John proposing to Mary after all, but we get this proposal.


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September 4, 2014 10:47 am  #33


Re: "The two people I love most..."

Flabbergasted...
I like that 


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

http://picload.org/image/lcowadi/osajrand2.jpg
 

September 4, 2014 11:07 am  #34


Re: "The two people I love most..."

Liberty wrote:

Snootiegirl99 wrote:

I wonder what it says about John and Sherlock's friendship that

A) Sherlock doesn't even try to run Mary off like all the other girlfriends (and she likes him as well).
B) Sherlock is all set to die in HLV but then the thought of letting John down and leaving John vulnerable brings him back.

A. I don't think he deliberately runs off other girlfriends.  That's partly John's doing as well.  There's that scene in ASiB where Sherlock can't remember which girlfriend John's with (the boring teacher), but John also forgets which one she is, and that's what drives her off. 

B. I think he's very protective, and has protected and saved John before - I think it's in character that that would be a driver for him.  It's the same person who sacrificed two years of his life and went through hell to save John (and others, but John's his main pressure point).

 
Yes, but what do those things say about their friendship and how deep it is?

Sherlock simply accepts Mary because she accepts him. She wants him in John's life whereas none of the others did. And her reflection of their connection is important to building their relationship in the story arc.

And is it only a protective instinct, or is it more? Sacrificing two years and going through torture says it's a deeper trust and connection than just a protective feeling.

My opinion is that they are in love whether it's a physically-manifested love or not.

 

September 4, 2014 3:48 pm  #35


Re: "The two people I love most..."

But why would John be in love with one person and marry another?.


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September 4, 2014 3:50 pm  #36


Re: "The two people I love most..."

besleybean wrote:

But why would John be in love with one person and marry another?.

 
Because he doesn't believe his feelings are returned in kind.
Or he's just too scared to face them.


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September 4, 2014 4:05 pm  #37


Re: "The two people I love most..."

Is this not a bit of a soap opera plot?


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September 4, 2014 4:20 pm  #38


Re: "The two people I love most..."

I''ve seen Johnlock for a long time now ("Because he doesn't believe his feelings are returned in kind.
Or he's just too scared to face them.")
, and I never feel like watching a soap opera. ;-)


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September 4, 2014 4:33 pm  #39


Re: "The two people I love most..."

A man nearly dies and only survies because the thought of leaving his best friend in danger is unbearable for him.

Is this not a bit of a soap opera plot?

Yep, but I love HLV anyway. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I still believe that love conquers all!

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"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

September 4, 2014 5:05 pm  #40


Re: "The two people I love most..."

besleybean wrote:

Is this not a bit of a soap opera plot?

 
The way the story is executed is what makes it not a soap opera.


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Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
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"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
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