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February 23, 2014 7:55 pm  #1


My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

After watching HLV where Mary seems to change quite abruptly I had a closer look again at episodes 1 and 2. How is she presented there? She seems clever, sassy, funny and offers to reconcile John and Sherlock. But I think we get some hints that she may be not such a nice and loving person. I tried to examine her character from the very beginning based solely on what we see her do and hear her say. I will post this in several parts because it is quite long. 

Let‘s start with TEH. (Note: all quotes are from ArianeDeVere‘s transcripts on livejournal.)

Scene 1: The Landmark restaurant

John is struggling with his proposal.

JOHN: Yes, I will. As you know, these last couple of years haven’t been easy for me; and meeting you ...
JOHN: Yeah, meeting you has been the best thing that could have possibly happened.
MARY: I agree.
JOHN: What?
MARY: I agree I’m the best thing that could have happened to you.


Now there are different ways to interpret this exchange. You might say she is trying to ease the situation by making a joke, she wants to help him by going for a certain lightness. But you could also say that she interrupts him with a cheeky remark while he is sorting out his feelings. She could have been moved or grateful or, more important, stated that she feels the same. All of which she does not. She says “sorry“ but how heartfelt is this really?


Scene 2: The café

JOHN: Oh, so it’s your brother’s plan?
MARY: Oh, he would have needed a confidant ...
SHERLOCK: Mm-hm.
MARY: Sorry.


Same thing as above. Of course she is right with her remark but it hurts John, she is rubbing in the fact that was not him Sherlock chose as a confidant. She apologises again but the words cannot be taken back. 


Scene 3: In the street

Sherlock deduces Mary and we get some hints that she might not be who she pretends to be. There is not just the obvious “liar“ but also “linguist“ (we thought she was a nurse) and “disillusioned“ (why? in which way?) and “guardian“ which might or might not apply to the newspaper. 
But we are distracted from these early hints by her promise to Sherlock that she will tell John around and once again by her telling John that she likes Sherlock. Maybe she does tell him around but we do not get this from the shaving scene (which is quite funny and moving).

MARY: Are you gonna see him again?
JOHN: No – I’m going to work.
MARY: Oh. And after work, are you gonna see him again? 


After work she asks him again if he is going to see Sherlock but we never see her persuade John to go. It might be his own decision for all we know. 

Then there is the skip-code message which she decodes extremely fast. And at arriving at the bonfire there is this piece of dialogue. 

SHERLOCK: Oh my God.
JOHN: Help!
(SHERLOCK (to Mary): Jump off!
SHERLOCK: Move! Move! Move! Move! Move!
SHERLOCK: John!
MARY: John! Get out, John!
JOHN: Help!
SHERLOCK: John? John!
(He gently pats John’s face.)
MARY: John.
SHERLOCK: Hey, John.

Sherlock is clearly in panic and fears for John‘s life. Imagine John in the middle of the bonfire, clearly trapped inside, and what does Mary say: “Get out, John!“ It is not the first thing I would say if my husband-to-be was about to be burnt alive, buried under a very big heap of wood. 

My impression from this episode is that Mary may be sassy and clever but not necessarily a very loving person - with one exception. The first time we see her is on the cemetery when she stands at John‘s side and takes his hand. There are no words, just this gesture. Apart from occasional kisses and the wedding dance IMO it is the only scene in which she shows real love and compassion towards John. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

February 23, 2014 7:58 pm  #2


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

And then there is TSoT. 

First I would like to look at the long wedding planning scene. Mary and Sherlock are eager, John less so, which is all fine. But then we get this exchange:

MARY: Hello?
MARY: Oh, hi, Beth!
MARY (into phone): Yeah, yeah, don’t see why not.
JOHN: Actually, if that’s Beth, it’s probably for me too. Hang on.
JOHN: He knows we don’t have a friend called Beth. He’s gonna figure out that it’s code.


So Beth does not exist, she is just a code between Mary and John. She reminds me of Cath who Mary wanted to visit the evening John was kidnapped. Cath who does not seem to appear at the wedding and is never mentioned again. Beth/Cath, might be coincidence but the universe is rarely so lazy. 

When watching it for the first time I liked Mary‘s little plot to get them out of the flat and solve a crime together. But it also shows how manipulative she can be, especially towards Sherlock. She uses his feelings for John to get them out of the flat while John himself is in the know. Or is he not? 
Remember the moment when she gives them the thumbs-up while the horns of the bison skull seem to grow out of her own head. In the Moftiss universe such an image cannot be a coincidence. And I wonder what she is doing she remains alone in the flat for hours. 

However, I think this episode is mostly characterised by what is not there, that is with regard to John and Mary. As someone pointed out on tumblr, in all of series 3 they do not once declare their love for each other, not even on the occasion of their wedding. What do you remember if you think of this episode?

I myself remember the funny scenes but most of all I remember the fact that the whole episode is a declaration of love - not by the two people getting married but by the best man to his best friend. 

Sure, we get these lines spoken by John but they are directed at Sherlock, not at Mary. 

No, it is! It is, and I want to be up there with the two people that I love and care about most in the world. 

And then there is this sentence by Sherlock addressed to John:

Today you sit between the woman you have made your wife and the man you have saved – in short, the two people who love you most in all this world.

These are the only times in this episode that love is mentioned with regard to these three people. And in my opinion they are quite telling:

John says he loves Sherlock and Mary. 
Sherlock says that he and Mary love John. 
But Mary never says that she loves anyone. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

February 23, 2014 8:01 pm  #3


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Actually I did not want to dwell on HLV as so much has been said about the episode already but I would like to continue this theme until the end. 

We get this line by Sherlock:

So is it truly such a surprise that the woman you’ve fallen in love with conforms to that pattern?

This is Sherlock telling John that John loves Mary. 

And what about Mary herself? What does she have to say about her feelings? Not much, actually.

If you love me, don’t read it in front of me.

This is totally selfish. She is focussed on her own feelings, what it would do to her if John read the contents of the flash drive. But what about his feelings, his disappointment, his shock?

And shortly afterwards there is this:

Because you won’t love me when you’ve finished ... and I don’t want to see that happen.

The same pattern - self-centred and callous towards John. Does it ring a bell? It reminded me of her veiled threats in Leinster Gardens:

Because John can’t ever know that I lied to him. It would break him and I would lose him forever – and, Sherlock, I will never let that happen.

There is nothing in this world that I would not do to stop that happening.


So, what is my conclusion? 

 We are meant to like Mary on the surface but if you dig deeper there are quite a lot if hints that she is not who she pretends be from the very beginning. 

There is a certain lack not only of romance which would be acceptable, but of kindness, especially towards John. 

 She never declares that she loves John - neither to himself, nor to Sherlock or anyone else. 

So where does that leave us? We may speculate about Sherlock‘s true motives in persuading John to reconcile with Mary. I simply cannot not buy the “you are attracted to dangerous persons“ thing. But then I remembered Moriarty‘s words that brought Sherlock back to life: 

It’s him that I worry about the most. That wife! You’re letting him down, Sherlock. John Watson is definitely in danger.

These are of course Sherlock‘s own thoughts, this is his opinion about Mary. And look at the things that happen next - there is nothing there to explain why he should change his mind and think her less dangerous and the ideal wife for his best friend: She walks into his hospital room and softly threatens him not to tell John the truth about her. Next he lures her to Leinster Gardens where she appears with a gun and threaten to kill anyone who comes between her and John. She obviously is willing to kill off Sherlock on the spot if it was the only way for her to keep John. 

And I think that this might be the explanation for Sherlock‘s surprising behaviour at Baker Street. I think he has realised that for now it might be more dangerous for John to leave Mary than to stay with her. He possibly fears that she would take desperate measures to keep John for herself and that she might even go as far as to say: When I can‘t have you, nobody shall. 

So why did he kill CAM if not for her? Not only Mary was in danger but everyone connected to her, including John. And as Benedict said, he had lost his game and saw no other way to rid the world of CAM (which would be in character as I cannot imagine Sherlock killing someone for purely personal reasons).

I just realised that I did not consider the pregnancy. But there have been quite a lot of theories about that so I think it may be forgivable if I skip this. 

I have tried to avoid pure speculation and to stick to the facts. Let me know your thoughts. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

February 23, 2014 8:21 pm  #4


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Awesome points.  Well done!!!

One thing-- I  have never understood how Mary and John could have a "suprise" pregnancy. I mean, they are not teenagers, and they understand contraception and the risks of unprotected sex. So-- err.. what gives? 

 

February 23, 2014 9:14 pm  #5


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Oh great! Another Mary-Bashing Threat! As if there aren't enough already.

But okay...I'll play:

MARY (smiling): I agree I’m the best thing that could have happened to you.
(John laughs. Mary screws up her nose apologetically.)
MARY: Sorry.

Emphasis on "John laughs"....Mary happens to share his kind of humour. You know the kind of humour which prompts him to tell Sarah that the next date will be better after she got nearly killed. During the whole exchange when John is trying to propose she keeps signalling him that she is ready to say yes.
When Sherlock interrupts and Mary realizes who he is, her reaction is:

MARY: Oh my God, oh my God. Do you have any idea what you’ve done to him?
SHERLOCK (looking down nervously): Okay, John, I’m suddenly realising I probably owe you some sort of an apology.
(Clenching his left fist, John slams it down onto the table. It’s a credit to the manufacturers of the table that he doesn’t shatter it. He hunches over his fist.)
MARY: All right, just ... John? Just keep ...


Her first thought in all this is John. But when she realizes that he is about to pummel Sherlock, her reaction is not to pull him out of the restaurant...she just wants him to keep calm. In fact, she keeps trying to calm him down during all three of the exchanges. Interesting is also this little information:

JOHN: Mary likes it.
SHERLOCK: Mmmmmm, no she doesn’t.
JOHN: She does.
SHERLOCK: She doesn’t.
(John glances briefly round at Mary, then does a double-take. She makes incoherent apologetic noises.)
JOHN: Oh! (He tries to cover his moustache with his hand.) Brilliant.
MARY: I’m sorry. Oh, I’m sorry – I didn’t know how to tell you.

Mary would rather get bushy kisses than forcing John to change his chosen appearance. Or risking to upset him. This shows how important John is for her (though it also reveals that she has trouble to reveal something about herself to John which he might not like).

SHERLOCK: I said I’m sorry. Isn’t that what you’re supposed to do?
(Mary is standing beside him, while John is a few yards up the road hailing a taxi.)
MARY: Gosh. You don’t know anything about human nature, do you?
(Sherlock lowers his head and looks at her.)
SHERLOCK: Mmm, nature? No. Human? ... No.
MARY: I’ll talk him round.
(Sherlock takes the napkin from under his nose and looks at her curiously.)
SHERLOCK: You will?
MARY (smiling confidently): Oh yeah.

This is the moment Mary decides to help Sherlock - because she realized that he honestly didn't want to hurt John. I think if she had believed that, he would have kept Sherlock away as far as possible. But knowing that Sherlock just doesn't understand emotion, she decides to forgive him (which in a way parallels Sherlock being ready to forgive her later on)

JOHN: Can you believe his nerve?
(Smiling, Mary turns to him.)
MARY: I like him.
JOHN: What?
MARY (shrugging and still smiling): I like him.

She could encourage John in his rant...but instead she simply takes the wind out of his sail before he can loose himself in a fit of anger. Next she reminds him of the old times by reading aloud from his blog, which ends in this exchange:

JOHN: Don’t read that.
MARY (still looking at the screen): The famous blog, finally!
JOHN: Come on – that’s ...
MARY: ... ancient history, yes, I know. But it’s not, though, is it, because he’s ...

She is just in the process of encouraging John to think of the possibility to go on cases again...but she doesn't have to follow through because John already shaved, so she only has to encourage him further to visit Sherlock later this day. But even then she asks "are you sure?" apparently ready to be there to support him should he need it, meeting be damned.

I also don't see why "John get out!" is the wrong thing to cry....she isn't able to see him, she doesn't know that he is too drugged up to struggle free on his own. And he is right there trying to reach him...Sherlock is just faster.

I'll do the other episodes later. But I think that Mary in TEH is nothing but supportive. She even goes immediately to Sherlock when she gets the skip code, knowing fully well that revealing her ability to read it might tip Sherlock off. But she does it nevertheless, because John is more important to her.

 

February 23, 2014 9:21 pm  #6


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Thank you for taking so much time to address my thoughts.

Just one thing - I have no idea why everything about series 3 has to get so personal. There has been a level of personal attacks since the airing of series 3 that I have never known in this forum. This not about bashing a character but about analysing what is there to see and hear. I am not bashing anything or anyone. To be honest - such a statement as yours is the reason why I waited two weeks to post this at all. 

Last edited by SusiGo (February 23, 2014 9:22 pm)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

February 23, 2014 9:21 pm  #7


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

@RavenMorganLeigh  Unplanned pregnancy's happen all the time, even if contraception is used. There is no way to avoid it for sure...well, I guess if you use a condom AND take the pill, it is very, very unlikely that it happens. But even then it is not impossible.

@Susi-Go I tried to keep away for a time, too, but nothing seems to change. I'm sorry, I'm a little bit defensive at this point. But I honestly like Mary, and the post about her seem to keep worse and worse. Now she even is "only pretending to like Sherlock" because she dares not to smile while he is send in the exile. The bashing was less about you, but about the fact that in every single thread people feel compelled to express their dislike for the way Mary was written and their hope that she'll die soon - even in the one I made specifically for liking her. I am really tired of this. It has been more than a months by now, but the negativity keeps getting worse and worse. I am currently thinking seriously about leaving the fandom for a while, because it really ruins the fun I had with the show so far.

Last edited by Swanpride (February 23, 2014 9:27 pm)

 

February 23, 2014 9:34 pm  #8


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Swanpride, I have said none of the above things. I have not expressed any dislike for the scripts but have tried to show that there are several layers and ways to interpret certain things. I really do not see why people get so terribly passionate about this. I honestly prefer Sherlock and John on their own but I try to not let it influence the way I perceive the show. Moftiss had to deal with the marriage and they chose to do it this way. Full stop. 
Maybe you should try not to take it so much to heart. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

February 23, 2014 9:40 pm  #9


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

SusiGo wrote:

Thank you for taking so much time to address my thoughts.

Just one thing - I have no idea why everything about series 3 has to get so personal. There has been a level of personal attacks since the airing of series 3 that I have never known in this forum. This not about bashing a character but about analysing what is there to see and hear. I am not bashing anything or anyone. To be honest - such a statement as yours is the reason why I waited two weeks to post this at all. 

I hear you. I got taken to the woodshed, because I'm writing a fic that *doesn't* absolve Mary, and have Sherlock, John and Mary living in a polyamorous wonderland. It's gotten weird enough where I seriously considered not even bothering to finish my story. Not! ;-) 

Maybe we all need to ...just breathe and remember this is supposed to be for fun. :-)

 

February 23, 2014 9:45 pm  #10


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

I agree with you, Raven. The fun has gone a bit short during the last weeks. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png
 
I think it is due to the nature of series 3 that there is so much discussion about the characters and the directions they take. Which is fine because this makes Sherlock interesting. I only criticise the way it is sometimes discusssed, not the discussion as such. 
P.S. I am no friend of polyamory either. 

Last edited by SusiGo (February 23, 2014 9:48 pm)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

February 23, 2014 9:47 pm  #11


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Well, but what are people who don't like Mary for whatever reason or who have a problem with the way she is written supposed to do? Aren't they allowed to state their opinions? I understand that it is difficult to read all these things when you like Mary, Swanpride, but let's face it: you go to great lengths to defend her while others go to similarly great lengths to state what they don't like about her and why.
I agree, it shouldn't get personal. But it seems Mofftiss have done a pretty good job in creating a character that makes for quite controversial debates.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?"

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"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

February 23, 2014 9:47 pm  #12


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Swanpride wrote:

@RavenMorganLeigh Unplanned pregnancy's happen all the time, even if contraception is used. There is no way to avoid it for sure...well, I guess if you use a condom AND take the pill, it is very, very unlikely that it happens. But even then it is not impossible.

@Susi-Go I tried to keep away for a time, too, but nothing seems to change. I'm sorry, I'm a little bit defensive at this point. But I honestly like Mary, and the post about her seem to keep worse and worse. Now she even is "only pretending to like Sherlock" because she dares not to smile while he is send in the exile. The bashing was less about you, but about the fact that in every single thread people feel compelled to express their dislike for the way Mary was written and their hope that she'll die soon - even in the one I made specifically for liking her. I am really tired of this. It has been more than a months by now, but the negativity keeps getting worse and worse. I am currently thinking seriously about leaving the fandom for a while, because it really ruins the fun I had with the show so far.

Hey there, Swanpride-- 
I'm just saying that since Mary's a nurse and John a doctor, you'd think that they would be the last people to get caught with an unplanned, unexpected pregnancy. And they were together only what, six months before John popped the question? That's a little fast, and ,frankly, with John in his forties, you'd think he'd know better. Mary's not young either-- it's risky for older women to get pregnant; there can be all sorts of complications from that... it's just suprising, is all. 

Keep in mind that no-one is attacking you via their own observations about the characters. I don't think anyone is trying to hurt your feelings; people just have different opinions, and they should all be free to voice them; and that includes you, too. :-)

 

February 23, 2014 9:50 pm  #13


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

@SusiGo Again, my remark was not about you, but about the "see, and this expression of Mary says clearly that she has not heart at all" posts which will follow soon. How many topics do we already have about her? 10? 20? And the claims about what people read into her expressions and actions have become worse and worse. I am totally okay with discussing her role in the show, or the moral aspects of her actions. I can also totally understand if someone says: "I can't forgive her" or "This was too big of a leap for me". But I am not okay with interpreting every single action of her as something evil or selfish. The character is way more complex than that. It's in my eyes no longer a discussion about her character, it has become more and more just bashing. "Let's see what else we can find to prove that she is unworthy of Sherlock sacrifice".

I guess the writers did something right, otherwise we wouldn't discuss her actions so thoroughly. But shouldn't we stick to the information we really have instead of reading something in her expressions and claiming it to be the truth?

Last edited by Swanpride (February 23, 2014 9:57 pm)

 

February 23, 2014 9:54 pm  #14


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

True, the writers wanted to create a controversial character and they have succeeded. But the fact that so many people find it difficult to like her shows IMO that the negative aspects may prevail. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

February 23, 2014 9:55 pm  #15


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

SusiGo wrote:

I agree with you, Raven. The fun has gone a bit short during the last weeks. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png
 
I think it is due to the nature of series 3 that there is so much discussion about the characters and the directions they take. Which is fine because this makes Sherlock interesting. I only criticise the way it is sometimes discusssed, not the discussion as such. 
P.S. I am no friend of polyamory either. 

Heh. Here's the funny thing about that story-- I don;t actually have anything against polyamory perse-- but in my story I made clear that I didn't think it would work for Sherlock; and that it would be kind of cruel to suggest it to him. And I confess that I am absolutley *not* inclined to the lifestyle, myself. 

But it's looking at the actual events and characterization in season 3 that intrigues me, and actually I find the mixed messages with the way  Mary is portrayed just...baffling. On the other hand, if she's an actual psychopath, one of the things she would be skilled at doing is charming people into liking her, sort of "the wolf in sheep's clothing" approach to all of her relationships. 

 

February 23, 2014 9:58 pm  #16


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

I will agree with Swanpride on TEH. I don't see anything wrong with Mary's actions in this episode. She is very supportive and seems to want to help John try and fix his relationship with Sherlock.

Susigo, you make a good point about the fact that in TSoT, we never saw the marriage vows nor did we see Mary and John show declaring their love for one another. Mostly, the episode focused on John and Sherlock. Mary seemed to just be there in the wedding dress. I think that is the fault of the writers, not of the character herself.

I believe if the writers took the chance to show us Mary and John alone. Maybe a couple of flashbacks or implications of how Mary helped John recover from his best friend's supposed death. Maybe like in the wedding, see these two together (without Sherlock) showing their love and geniune affection. I bet people or at least, the majority of fans (there are just some people who already made up their minds to hate this character and even if she was written better, still hate her, will just continue to hate her) would perceive her better and see that , though flawed in her actions, geniunely does love John.

About HLV, I will tackle that one later. To me, that is just a mess.


 

Last edited by LoveIsAViciousMotivator (February 23, 2014 9:59 pm)

 

February 23, 2014 10:02 pm  #17


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

LoveIsAViciousMotivator wrote:

I will agree with Swanpride on TEH. I don't see anything wrong with Mary's actions in this episode. She is very supportive and seems to want to help John try and fix his relationship with Sherlock.

Susigo, you make a good point about the fact that in TSoT, we never saw the marriage vows nor did we see Mary and John show declaring their love for one another. Mostly, the episode focused on John and Sherlock. Mary seemed to just be there in the wedding dress. I think that is the fault of the writers, not of the character herself.

I believe if the writers took the chance to show us Mary and John alone. Maybe a couple of flashbacks or implications of how Mary helped John recover from his best friend's supposed death. Maybe like in the wedding, see these two together (without Sherlock) showing their love and geniune affection. I bet people or at least, the majority of fans (there are just some people who already made up their minds to hate this character and even if she was written better, still hate her, will just continue to hate her) would perceive her better and see that , though flawed in her actions, geniunely does love John.

 

But...erm, the character Mary is a creation of the writers. That means she is what they wanted her to be. She can't independently up and decide to be a great person and then be mad that the writers didn't portray her that way... she is the way she is because the writers wrote her that way, and that is what fans are responding to. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/confused.png
 So, I don't quite understand what you mean...

 

February 23, 2014 10:04 pm  #18


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

LoveIsAViciousMotivator That's a good point...but then, TSoT was more about Sherlock than about John and Mary (and I admit, I am kind of glad that they skipped their wedding vows - it's such a cliché). Though there are a lot of hints that Mary loves John...the happiness she shows when Mayor Sholto turns up for example. She is just glad that he is there because it was important for John. I also liked the moment shortly before, when she comforts him about Harry not being there.

 

February 23, 2014 10:06 pm  #19


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

I haven't been in the forum much this season, because honestly, the heated debate sometimes ruins the fun of enjoying the story for me.  (It gets so meta that you almost can't un-meta your brain afterwards!)  Anyway, I was thinking about Mary, John, and Sherlock as I walked my dog today.  For me, it came down to selflessness of the love.

John:  Would die for Sherlock.  Would die for Mary.

Sherlock:  Would die for John.  Would die for Mary-for-John.

Mary:  Would likely die for John.  But wouldn't die for Sherlock.*  Would even kill him if she needed to.  Tsk tsk.

*This with a footnote that perhaps, perhaps, perhaps in season 4, she will die for Sherlock, in John's view.  Thus redeeming herself and eliminating the inconvenience of her presence from the Johnlock dynamic, and further cementing our boys.

Fillyjonk


Check my Tumblr for a musical tribute to Sherlock's devotion during series 3.
http://imtooticky.tumblr.com
 

February 23, 2014 10:10 pm  #20


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Well, why should she die for Sherlock? She only knows him for less than a year. She isn't in love with him. And I bet, she would risk her life for him - but not the life of her unborn child and her marriage.

 

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