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January 18, 2014 2:37 pm  #21


Re: Moriarty theories

We had a character named "Sir Moran"...but in the book, that's Sebastian Moran's father. Plus, I wonder why they avoided saying the first name, otherwise. They can built up on this and explaining Moran's desire for revenge with the fact that Sherlock made sure that his relative got arrested and the good name of his family ruined. (Which is, too be honest, a way better motivation than being upset about Moriaty's end.)
Compared to the other criminals, Moran is one of the more interesting one, because he has quite a backstory. He is bascially the hero who went bad at one point. A professional gamler. And ruthless. Sherlock considers him the second most dangerous man in London, after Moriarty.

 

January 18, 2014 3:15 pm  #22


Re: Moriarty theories

Oh, I forgot about that backstory, it's been a while since I read the Empty House. I'm starting to like your version of him now. Sir Moran was in his late forties, early fifties so he has to be end twenty, early 30, maybe even younger. I imagine him as a rich spoiled kid, thrillseeker, professional gambler, great, maybe he plays poker too. Must know how to read and intimidate people. Got involved with the bad guys somehow and daddy got him out of sticky situations a few times. He'd have to have his own criminal network somehow, since Moriarty's one is gone. Yep, starting to see your point. 

I'm definately plotting my own series 4 now. 

     Thread Starter
 

January 18, 2014 3:32 pm  #23


Re: Moriarty theories

I know...dangerous, isn't it?

The could change "father" to "older brother" so every age is possible, but I like the idea that he is quite young. Perhaps he was Moriaty's right hand man, but was smart enough to lay low after his dead, and is now picking up the pieces bit by bit.

 

January 19, 2014 6:02 am  #24


Re: Moriarty theories

Lets see, Moriarity had someone made up to look just like Sherlock to frighten the kids, and then he was killed, and that corpse was used by Sherlock to fake his own death. 

Moriarity could just as well had a doppelganger of himself made up.  In Study in Pink, he has someone killing others, so his family could be taken care of after the cabbie died.  He could have someone else under control with a similar scenario. 

I can hear Moriarity saying "Two can play at that game, Sherlock." 

And maybe, the character we've seen as Moriarity, is not Moriarity at all, but a stand-in.  And Moriarity doesn't even look like that.


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And I'm assuming she scrubbed your floors, by the state of her knees.
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Cabbie: You're too modest, Mr. Holmes.
Holmes: I'm really not.
 

January 19, 2014 11:08 am  #25


Re: Moriarty theories

That would be straying pretty far from canon. Though Moriarty did have a brother, no one ever said that it wouldn't be a twin. 

     Thread Starter
 

January 19, 2014 11:47 am  #26


Re: Moriarty theories

A "real" Moriarty wouldn't make much sense - canon problems aside, he wouldn't have sat back while Sherlock dismantels his network. For the same reason Moriarty being alive wouldn't work (even withouth the bullet in the brain part). Whoever did this has to be someone who had a reason to wait three years before making his move.

 

February 6, 2014 8:51 pm  #27


Re: Moriarty theories

I've got a hypothesis about the character we know as Jim Moriarty. Remember Moriarty's trial in TRF? The court had a huge amount of information available about 'Richard Brook'; he had starred in a well-known medical drama, had been a children's storyteller, etc. Meanwhile, they could find barely any information on 'Jim Moriarty'; I think that at one point in a newspaper he was referred to as "Ireland's man of mystery, of no fixed abode". So, perhaps Richard Brook was the actual identity of the villain, while Jim Moriarty was the criminal persona that he created, possibly specifically to go after Sherlock.

So, taking this hypothesis one step further, maybe Moffat and Gatiss weren't exactly lying when they told us that Moriarty was definitely dead. Perhaps Richard Brook decided by the end of TRF to do away with his Moriarty persona, making Jim Moriarty essentially 'dead'.

What do you think? Just a crack theory, or a plausible possibility?

EDIT: In case it isn't clear in the above post, I totally think that Richard Brook/Jim Moriarty/Whoever-He-Is is alive.

Last edited by Therese (February 6, 2014 8:54 pm)


~T.
 

February 11, 2014 1:23 am  #28


Re: Moriarty theories

My main point or problem is, that the body of moriarty was never found/shown/talked out but the public "knows", that he died...
So here some attempt at logic:


As far as I understand it, the two made up theories (Anderson and the girl) are based upon the public knowing, that Moriarty was involved in Sherlocks death, but Moriarty hasn't been found.
(- Andersons story says, that Moriarty is dead, he was put a sherlock mask on, but the hearse is empty;
- Fanclub Girl story: Moriarty and Sherlock teamed up and are both alive; no dead bodies.)


Sherlocks own explanation of the jump didn't mention what happened to Moriarty at all. But he says, that Moriarty killed himself. He obviously fell for Moriartys fake death.
But then explain this: Sherlock saw Moriarty die, but the public kinda knows, that Moriarty's body wasn't found. Sherlock should be able to add 1+1 here and see that something doesn't add up.
Maybe he does, and maybe he isn't even surprised, at least season 3 didn't mention anything about it!
If I'm right, in S04E01 Sherlock should not be surprised that Moriarty is back.

So I guess Moriarty got up and ran away, when Sherlock jumped.
Notice, nobody but Sherlock (and probably Mycroft) knew that Moriarty was up there.
So then how did it become public knowledge that Moriarty was involved in this? His body wasn't found obviously. But Anderson's and the fangirl's storys both involve Moriarty being on the roof.

I like that he faked his death too and comes back, but it's strange that the whole season 3 didn't touch that subject.
Obviously they did that purposely, because they knew years ago, that he would come back.

But for me there is still a gaping hole in the story:
- All being shocked by "did you miss me?" means, that all thought Moriarty was dead.
- But how did they even know, that he died?
- Mycroft going "this can't be possible, this simply can't be possible" at the end of "His last vow" doesn't make sense at all.
If there was no Moriarty body on the roof, Mycroft would know!

So my only explanation is, that Mycroft is acting this "can't be possible" line and that he spread the "Moriarty is dead" news after "The Reichenbach Fall" to the public. And it's only logical, that Sherlock knew in S03E01 already, that Moriarty was alive, but we weren't told about it.

At least this is the only way all would add up logically for me.

I don't believe in any of the theories about the "did you miss me" not being Moriarty and someone faking it for whatever reason, a double, a twin or whatever. If that was true, nothing else would make sense any more. Because obviously the public was told, that he is dead, but it's also known, that there is no body (which might not be public, only police internal knowledge that Anderson has and gave to the fanclub).

Am I making any logical mistakes in this?

Last edited by DavidM1337 (February 11, 2014 1:33 am)

 

February 11, 2014 7:54 am  #29


Re: Moriarty theories

I've wondered, too, about Moriarty's body and about how his death was reported.
But my initial reaction to film footage was that Mycroft was behind it and that when he said to Lady Smallwood that he'd need her permission, he was asking her to give the OK to the simultaneous broadcast, and not, as it appeared to others in the room, asking permission for Sherlock to be sent away.
The end credits confused me for a minute, but I think that was the writers having fun with us.

I don't think Moriarty is alive - it kind of undoes the whole of season two if he is.
It could be an equally deranged Brother who is about to be unleashed - though I hope not.


"And in the end,
The Love you take
Is equal to the Love you make"
                                             The Beatles
 

February 11, 2014 4:51 pm  #30


Re: Moriarty theories

If you think so, then please make sense about the non-existent moriarty body.

 

February 11, 2014 4:57 pm  #31


Re: Moriarty theories

Tinks wrote:

I've wondered, too, about Moriarty's body and about how his death was reported.
But my initial reaction to film footage was that Mycroft was behind it and that when he said to Lady Smallwood that he'd need her permission, he was asking her to give the OK to the simultaneous broadcast, and not, as it appeared to others in the room, asking permission for Sherlock to be sent away.
The end credits confused me for a minute, but I think that was the writers having fun with us.

I don't think Moriarty is alive - it kind of undoes the whole of season two if he is.
It could be an equally deranged Brother who is about to be unleashed - though I hope not.

I agree, but we still have a missing villain from the Moriarty network who wants Sherlock dead, since we have not had the final element from canon in the return of Sherlock Holmes. Moftiss have used the dummy trick in HLV, but I vaguely recall it coming up twice in canon; the Olympic ice skating is interfering with my powers of total recall

I'm far from convinced that Mycroft knew it was coming; I think he would have left it rather longer than four minutes for Sherlock to learn his lesson...
 

 

February 11, 2014 5:14 pm  #32


Re: Moriarty theories

Indeed, I've tracked it down; the dummy turns up again in the Mazarin Stone, along with Billy...

 

February 11, 2014 5:41 pm  #33


Re: Moriarty theories

It WAS a very quick lesson learnt, I grant you - but last time Mycroft had to wade in and get his hands dirty to bring Sherlock home, so maybe he wanted to save himself the bother this time 
It's probably clear by now though that I'm a big fan of the Holmes Brothers' relationship and am hoping it gets warmer rather than colder, so maybe there's some wishful thinking in my theory 
I'm sticking with it for the time being though, although I agree that there's someone out there who is still after Sherlock - I just really don't want it to be Moriarty himself!


"And in the end,
The Love you take
Is equal to the Love you make"
                                             The Beatles
 

February 11, 2014 7:56 pm  #34


Re: Moriarty theories

Joalro wrote:

Moriarty is alive.  TRF was a chess game between Moriarty and Sherlock, and Moriarty's death was simply a move.  He was hoping that that move would force Sherlock into his death, but Sherlock had an appropriate coutner move.

The game is not over yet.  

The fact is that we actually still have no information as to what happened at the end of series 2.  Even how Sherlock faked it, in my opinion, has not been revealed.  The series cliffhanger for series 3 is the exact same cliffhanger for 2.  How did they both do it?

I noticed this: they effectively took us back to the end of Season 2 - with Sherlock in serious trouble, John facing losing him forever, and Moriarty once again a threat. There is even a parallel between how Moriarty set Sherlock up and how CAM did. CAM was going to make it look like Sherlock was selling Mycroft's info, and possibly, that Sherlock made it up about him (CAM) being a blackmailer.

I'm betting we won't get a real explanation for how Moriarty did it, either! 

I always had a hard time with the idea that Moriarty killed himself just to make himself permanently unable to call off the snipers, or give Sherlock a code. I guess I think Moriarty would want to be alive more than that.

But keep in mind, we have NOT seen Moriarty in person...we have seen FOOTAGE of Moriarty. There would be no great feat in footage of him talking having been made before he died. The question would then be, who is now putting that footage on TV, but after all, Moriarty had a vast network.

 

Last edited by SherlocklivesinOH (February 11, 2014 9:33 pm)

 

February 11, 2014 10:18 pm  #35


Re: Moriarty theories

Once again: all signs are, that the public in the series knows, that Moriartys body was not found on the roof.

 

February 11, 2014 11:56 pm  #36


Re: Moriarty theories

Heck, knowing THIS series, CAM could still be alive!

 

February 12, 2014 5:57 am  #37


Re: Moriarty theories

I just noticed Mary saying in the last scene "he told me he is dead"..... does she mean Sherlock or Mycroft by "he"? Anyway they must have been lying. Except Mycroft lies to Sherlock regarding the not existing body.

 

February 12, 2014 10:29 am  #38


Re: Moriarty theories

I thought Mary said "you" told me he blew his brains out? To John?
Also, if Moriarty is alive, and there was no body, then Sherlock would appear not to know this, since his mind palace version of Moriarty seems to be dead?


"And in the end,
The Love you take
Is equal to the Love you make"
                                             The Beatles
 

February 12, 2014 11:46 am  #39


Re: Moriarty theories

I agree she definitely said "you told me...."


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Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from!
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February 13, 2014 1:55 am  #40


Re: Moriarty theories

It seems to me like Moriarty's death or lack of isn't common knowledge. Why else would Anderson's theory at the start have him dead but the woman from the EH club have him alive? It could have been covered up by Mycroft to protect Sherlock's image to some degree. If Moriarty's body was found on the roof after Sherlock jumped then there could have been murder-suicide questions. Furthre tarnishing Sherlock's good name.


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