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January 7, 2014 12:01 pm  #21


Re: Red Beard Clue

What intrigues me is that when Mycroft mentions Redbeard Sherlock doesn't get annoyed, he gets visibly upset. It might be something small-ish like a toy but it certainly left a mark on him. 

 

January 7, 2014 12:11 pm  #22


Re: Red Beard Clue

My brilliant Red Beard minifigure theory was just shooting the breeze, since work is 'boring' atm. But in TRF John talks to Mycroft about Sherlock supposedly having smurfs or action men and how that could've caused bad blood or traumata between the brothers. Now, CAM had a room full of broken toys. Could he be someone from Sherlock's childhood, maybe just peripheral, like Moriarty?  CAM might have started to collect things about people quite early, as Moriarty started his villain carreer early, too.
#justanotheroddtheory

Last edited by sherlocked (January 7, 2014 12:14 pm)

 

January 7, 2014 12:25 pm  #23


Re: Red Beard Clue

Mrs. Watson, kids can get very upset, if something happens to their favorite toys. I told on the other thread (So3 theories), how my son reacted, when his Batman figure fell into a lake. Maybe somthing happened to a toy of Sherlock, and he couldn't explain it. It remained an unsolved mystery. That would be doubly traumatic for young Sherlock. And it would explain, why he is still upset. Not, because of a toy, but because he couldn't solve something. And this room of broken toys of CAM's WAS creepy.
#still anotheroddtheory

Last edited by sherlocked (January 7, 2014 12:28 pm)

 

January 7, 2014 12:37 pm  #24


Re: Red Beard Clue

Arrrrrrgh...I just realized something...I think they successfully mislead us....Think about it:

"Do you remember Red Beard?"
"I am not a child anymore, Mycroft!"

NOTHING in this says that Red Beard is in ANY way connected to Sherlock's childhood. Red Beard can simply be the name of one of Mycroft secret operation (involving CAM?), and Sherlock feels annoyed that Mycroft feels the need to remind him of the fact that said operation is going on. "Don't patronize me, I am not a child anymore!"

 

January 7, 2014 12:50 pm  #25


Re: Red Beard Clue

You could well be right, swanpride. At the moment we are just running away with theories. But the way it was said and had something to do with not getting too attached to people or things, leads me to believe, it has something to do with Sherlock's childhood.

 

January 7, 2014 1:02 pm  #26


Re: Red Beard Clue

Could it be that Mycroft codenamed CAM "Redbeard" in reference to how he pirates and loots and pillages blackmail information? As well as his beard? http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/shocked.png


I will NEVER fire a gun IN my mouth when I'm planning on Stayin Alive! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/devious.gif

The clue that everyone missed?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/6dc8e291b4cf352fceb1d34759d3de63/tumblr_mmrgjhabnZ1rvzxbzo6_500.gif
 

January 7, 2014 1:04 pm  #27


Re: Red Beard Clue

If we consider Barbe-Rouge story, we could even imagine Mary is CAM's adoptive daughter living under a fake identity because unlike him (and like Eric Lerouge), she wants to live a honest life, and not a "pirate" (baddie). (yet I'm sure the Holmes would know about that and again, I can't really imagine Sherlock leaving John marry Mary with that knowledge. Unless it's part of a plan: Sherlock may think he'd get to CAM more easily pretending he doesn't know about this, and sure he will be able to free Mary from CAM, hence his vow to protect her and John... A mistake??)

Also, I find it interesting that he calls her "poppet":

"~~The word poppet is an older spelling of puppet, from the Middle English popet, meaning a small child or doll." (wikipedia)

Puppet, huh? Is it to remind Mary, on her wedding's day, that she's just a puppet for him and that she can do whatever she wants to escape him (getting married, trying to live a normal life), he's still the one pulling the strings, and he can do what he want of her... and of John???

 


************************
Just like old times...


http://i.imgur.com/lEZJjZh.jpg?1
 
 

January 7, 2014 1:07 pm  #28


Re: Red Beard Clue

Oh, I hadn't seen this part in the definition of "poppet":

"~~In folk-magic and witchcraft, a poppet, also known as Poppits, Moppets, Mommets and Pippies is a doll made to represent a person, for casting spells on that person or to aid that person through magic. They are occasionally found lodged in chimneys.[2] These dolls may be fashioned from such materials as a carved root, grain or corn shafts, a fruit, paper, wax, a potato, clay, branches, or cloth stuffed with herbs with the intent that any actions performed upon the effigy will be transferred to the subject based on sympathetic magic. It was from these European dolls that the myth of Voodoo dolls arose.[2][3] Poppets are also used as kitchen witch figures."


Ahem... Voodoo dolls now...


************************
Just like old times...


http://i.imgur.com/lEZJjZh.jpg?1
 
 

January 7, 2014 1:13 pm  #29


Re: Red Beard Clue

I think redbeard is a metaphor that is tied to a painful childhood memory, maybe losing the toy or having it destroyed, something like that. It's Mycroft saying to Sherlock: 'don't get attached to people you'll only get hurt'. He's been saying that to Sherlock for two seasons now. He wants to protect him. Sherlock's remark 'Can't handle a broken heart, how very telling' could also be a reference. Maybe Mycroft got hurt too in the past and he doesn't want the same to happen to his brother.

(In my headcanon, Mycroft had a husband who was killed and Mycroft swore never to fall in love again, but that's probably not how they're gonna play it.)

Mark tweeting Redbeard: is he tweeting as Mycroft? Maybe he hints to us, don't get too attached to Mary. Something's gonna happen to her. 

 

January 7, 2014 1:19 pm  #30


Re: Red Beard Clue

Yeah, could be something like a teddy bear named like that simply because Sherlock liked pirates, and he lost it or whatever while he was attached to it.

I like your headcanon idea (well, surely because it reminds me of myself: my husband killed himself a year and a half ago and I swore never to fall in love again and I am as lonely as Mycroft, except i've got my little boy)

And yeah, Mark could just telling us not to get "involved" as well, not to get attached to Mary.


************************
Just like old times...


http://i.imgur.com/lEZJjZh.jpg?1
 
 

January 7, 2014 1:28 pm  #31


Re: Red Beard Clue

And since we're talking about poppet/puppet now, what about those figurines standing around in that room at the end of TEH where CAM is sitting and watching the tape from the bonfire...? I have been wondering about their meaning since I first saw them... http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/confused.png


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?"

http://picload.org/image/lcowadi/osajrand2.jpghttp://picload.org/image/lcplrww/berlinsigneu4.jpghttp://picload.org/image/lcpldgo/berlinsigneu2.jpghttp://picload.org/image/lcpldgc/berlinsigneu3.jpghttp://picload.org/image/lcpldgw/berlinsigneu.jpg

Thank you very good much.
 

January 7, 2014 1:37 pm  #32


Re: Red Beard Clue

Considering that Mycroft feels the need to remind Sherlock of it when he is already in the process of hanging up, I go for "secret operation Mycroft is using Sherlock in".

 

January 7, 2014 1:38 pm  #33


Re: Red Beard Clue

Yeah they were creepy, like that rabbit and that magician top hat... i don't think "poppet" has been chosen innocently.

I'm so obsessed i dreamt of sherlock last night and against all odds, something very bad was happening to mycroft, and not mary. God i hope it's not one of those dreams that get real!


************************
Just like old times...


http://i.imgur.com/lEZJjZh.jpg?1
 
 

January 7, 2014 1:39 pm  #34


Re: Red Beard Clue

Punch me in the face wrote:

Oh, I hadn't seen this part in the definition of "poppet":

"~~In folk-magic and witchcraft, a poppet, also known as Poppits, Moppets, Mommets and Pippies is a doll made to represent a person, for casting spells on that person or to aid that person through magic. 

Ahem... Voodoo dolls now...

CAM being a master manipulator has the same effect as a blackmailer....Soooo... black-magic = black-mailer? Him being a voodoo guy (one that actually works) is definitely chilling indeed! Now this is GENIOUS!!!!! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png


Thumbs up for the discovery friend! 


I will NEVER fire a gun IN my mouth when I'm planning on Stayin Alive! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/devious.gif

The clue that everyone missed?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/6dc8e291b4cf352fceb1d34759d3de63/tumblr_mmrgjhabnZ1rvzxbzo6_500.gif
 

January 7, 2014 1:39 pm  #35


Re: Red Beard Clue

Perhaps he is collecting figurines? The plot of "The illustious client" and "Charles August Milverton" is very similiar, it would make sense to connect CAM and Baron Gruner...and Gruner collected chinese ceramics.

 

January 7, 2014 1:44 pm  #36


Re: Red Beard Clue

Punch me in the face wrote:

I like your headcanon idea (well, surely because it reminds me of myself: my husband killed himself a year and a half ago and I swore never to fall in love again and I am as lonely as Mycroft, except i've got my little boy).

OMG, I'm sorry, that must have been awful. Hope you're ok. Guess you can relate to the Holmes boys, (though Mycroft is still in denial http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png
). Luckily you don't have to be in love in order to be happy. 

On the poppet theory, it was another telegram, i think, so probably unrelated. I don't think Redbeard is a physical thing that CAM has, I think it's purely a metaphor but who knows.

No idea about the figures, maybe CAM has a very weird taste in decoration. Or they are souvenirs of his victims, little symbolic things that remind him of all the lives he has broken. When he's bored or sad, he looks at them gleefully and feels the testosteron spike of powerrrrr. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/devious.png

 

January 7, 2014 1:49 pm  #37


Re: Red Beard Clue

Swanpride wrote:

Perhaps he is collecting figurines? The plot of "The illustious client" and "Charles August Milverton" is very similiar, it would make sense to connect CAM and Baron Gruner...and Gruner collected chinese ceramics.

But I want Gruner to be a separate villain and to be played by David Tennant. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.png
http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png


That'd be awesome, and let him keep his Scottish accent. After hearing Moff imitating DW villains I'm convinced that all villains should be Scottish. Is there a Scottish name that sounds like Gruner? 

 

January 7, 2014 2:06 pm  #38


Re: Red Beard Clue

Or it's a reference to him being a puppet player, so to speak.

 

January 7, 2014 2:20 pm  #39


Re: Red Beard Clue

Swanpride wrote:

Or it's a reference to him being a puppet player, so to speak.

 Too predictable I think. But we'll only know after HLV...


I will NEVER fire a gun IN my mouth when I'm planning on Stayin Alive! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/devious.gif

The clue that everyone missed?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/6dc8e291b4cf352fceb1d34759d3de63/tumblr_mmrgjhabnZ1rvzxbzo6_500.gif
 

January 7, 2014 3:43 pm  #40


Re: Red Beard Clue

Okay...here my theory:

The whole end of the phone call from "by the way" onwards is not about the wedding at all! It is just worded the way that we assume it is, after all the talk about Sherlock's involvement in the wedding. But if you disconnect this part from the rest and see it as stand alone, you get this:

"Do you remember - Red Beard?"
(pause) "I am not a child anymore, Mycroft!"
"No, of course you are not. Enjoy not getting involved."

And taking this alone...to me it sounds as if Mycroft wanted Sherlock to do something for him, something involving a project with the code name "red beard", but Sherlock declined. Perhaps in the end, it is not something what he does which leads to the most likely impending tragedy, but something he didn't do. And if Mary has a secret, he allready knows about it, but decides not to act on it and keep it for himself, for John's and Mary's sake.

 

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