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July 21, 2012 8:37 am  #141


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

I'd love to think John has any hope left but I believe him to know in his heart Sherlock could have not survived that fall - thus the grieving including denial stage.


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It is the unofficial force—the Baker Street Irregulars.
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July 21, 2012 1:33 pm  #142


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

sherlockskitty wrote:

oh fiddlesticks.  I  just read the transcript of TRF  for the umpteenth time.   Remember John's line,  "don't be dead, Sherlock, please?"  ??   OK.  That makes me think that John actually KNOWS  that Sherlock isn't dead.  He's just...acting the part of a grieving friend. Plus--the more I watch this episode,  the more I see it.  John walked away from the grave,  and his head sort of turned in the direction where S was standing. That's what I think.

Interesting. I've never heard anyone say they actually thought John was just acting a part at the graveside, that he knows Sherlock is alive and is just holding up his end of the partnership for appearances sake. This is actually quite an intriguing scenario to think about, isn't it. Hmmm. Only thing is, John is a doctor--- where in heck did he ever get to be such a good actor? In the scenes with the psychologist and the one with Mrs. H, well, maybe he could act that well to keep them in the dark about the truth.... but why, if he's acting like the grief-stricken friend and partner, would he continue that charade all by himself at the grave-site, talking to Sherlock, touching the stone, crying, marching away as though if he gave it one more thought he wouldn't be able to carry on anymore? In other words, I can understand the idea of him putting on a show for others, but why would he continue doing that when alone?

 

July 21, 2012 1:54 pm  #143


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

sherlockskitty wrote:

oh fiddlesticks.  I  just read the transcript of TRF  for the umpteenth time.   Remember John's line,  "don't be dead, Sherlock, please?"  ??   OK.  That makes me think that John actually KNOWS  that Sherlock isn't dead.  He's just...acting the part of a grieving friend. Plus--the more I watch this episode,  the more I see it.  John walked away from the grave,  and his head sort of turned in the direction where S was standing.    That's what I think.

So the whole scene at the psychologist's was fake?

I don't think so, do you?


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July 21, 2012 2:15 pm  #144


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

John doesn't know that Sherlock is alive. That's what I think. The turn of is head is "overinterpreted" here - or maybe just a way to change the scene. To lead the view of the audience to the right direction.
That's from a dark corner in my mind palace. I will watch TRF the third time next week, maybe it'll change my mind and I have to clean up my corners.

Last edited by Mattlocked (July 21, 2012 2:17 pm)


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July 21, 2012 2:48 pm  #145


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

My own interpretation is that, in his head, John knows good and well that Sherlock is dead.  However, there is still doubt, or at least hope, in his heart.


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It was worth a wound–it was worth many wounds–to know the depth of loyalty and love which lay behind that cold mask. The clear, hard eyes were dimmed for a moment, and the firm lips were shaking. For the one and only time I caught a glimpse of a great heart as well as of a great brain. All my years of humble but single-minded service culminated in that moment of revelation.
 

July 21, 2012 6:29 pm  #146


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

kazza474 wrote:

So the whole scene at the psychologist's was fake? I don't think so, do you?

No, and neither was that brief scene of John in the Baker St living room, barefoot, sitting in thought. He looked wrecked, empty-brained, at a loss of what to do now. The empty leather chair across from him spoke volumes. The place was....silent. All the life had gone out of it. All the energy.

Not. Faking. Does. Not. Know.   That's my take on it, for sure.

 

July 21, 2012 6:32 pm  #147


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Fetchinketch wrote:

My own interpretation is that, in his head, John knows good and well that Sherlock is dead.  However, there is still doubt, or at least hope, in his heart.

Oh, yes, he definitely has hope. Otherwise how could he have stood there and asked for the miracle of not-being-dead? He knows full well how Sherlock can surprise everyone, and now he's fully prepared to be surprised, any time good ol' Sher wants to show up again. Poor John. He really puts up with a lot, doesn't he.

I am genuinely excited about seeing how the writers are going to fix this, when the time comes. Squeeing with excitement, as a matter of fact. I hope my head doesn't explode first.

 

July 21, 2012 6:34 pm  #148


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Mattlocked wrote:

.... a dark corner in my mind palace. I will watch TRF the third time next week, maybe it'll change my mind and I have to clean up my corners.

Your mind palace! lolololol  Yes, mind palaces can get disorganized and cob-webby, can't they.

I have now watched TRF all the way through 5 times and my fave parts at least 20. I think I have parts of it memorized. Some of the most fascinating TV I've ever seen.

 

July 21, 2012 6:53 pm  #149


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

ancientsgate wrote:

Mattlocked wrote:

.... a dark corner in my mind palace. I will watch TRF the third time next week, maybe it'll change my mind and I have to clean up my corners.

Your mind palace! lolololol  Yes, mind palaces can get disorganized and cob-webby, can't they.

Oh yes, really.... Have to commit that, compared to Sherlock, mine is more kind of...... mind-shelf.... But quite disorganized anyway. Only thing sorted as far as I possible is the "Sherlock-corner". Everything else starts falling away to the sides... Lying on the dusty floor... Ready for being picked up again later... maybe in some years... 


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Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

July 21, 2012 6:54 pm  #150


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

No. I still believe that John knows Sherlock is dead but he cannot accept it. The comment about the miracle is him being still in a state of denial HOWEVER it does serve a clear dramatic purpose. From there, almost immediately afterwards the camera cuts to a shot of Sherlock, very much alive and well.

We see that as the audience; we are let into the secret. Unlike the original story where Sherlock Holmes dies at the Reichenbach Falls and is only subsequently resurrected due to the pressure exerted by the readership upon Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

Of course the little speech that John makes at the graveside resounds with dramatic irony. He is basically giving a eulogy for a man we, at the end, know is not dead. If John really believed Sherlock to be alive or capable of defying death through some kind of miracle he would not be as clearly devastated as he is.


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July 21, 2012 8:28 pm  #151


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Oh God, this thread is making me all emotional for John. 


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July 21, 2012 8:32 pm  #152


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

This was post no. 20,000. Congrats, boss!


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July 21, 2012 9:17 pm  #153


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Mattlocked wrote:

Have to commit that, compared to Sherlock, mine is more kind of...... mind-shelf.... But quite disorganized anyway. Only thing sorted as far as I possible is the "Sherlock-corner". Everything else starts falling away to the sides... Lying on the dusty floor... Ready for being picked up again later... maybe in some years... 

But have you conveniently forgotten that the earth revolves around the sun?  *smile*

 

July 21, 2012 9:27 pm  #154


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Yes, because Mattlocked is spectacularly ignorant in a nice way 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

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July 21, 2012 10:00 pm  #155


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

I only keep USEFUL things in my mind. REALLY useful!!


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"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

July 21, 2012 10:26 pm  #156


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Oh God, this thread is making me all emotional for John. 

Mmmm. I loves me some John. He is the wind beneath Sherlock's ruffled wings, IMO. Ya can't have one without the other. 

And meanwhile, we all have to wait (and wait and wait and wait) to see what happens next. I haven't been this full of anticipation for like centuries, lol. Cliffhangers--- can't live with 'em or without 'em.

 

July 21, 2012 10:37 pm  #157


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

this is a cliffhanger,  INDEED!!   Too bad it's the SHERLOCK kind...


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July 31, 2012 9:38 am  #158


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

I wonder if they'll make it as a surprise for John like "Oops, btw. I'm not dead" or the way that John suspects/notices something weird before actually seeing Sherlock alive.

He definitely has to punch Sherlock!

I'm sure Mycroft knows and helped Sherlock, especially after all the things he told Moriarty, he obviously felt extremely guilty.

I really worry about how Mrs Hudson will react.

And I'm excited to see the faces of Donovan and Anderson!

Btw. what's it with these "3 years later", is it confirmed that it'll be 3 years later? I read that a lot online, but never found a source.

Last edited by Ivy (July 31, 2012 9:55 am)


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July 31, 2012 10:04 am  #159


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Ivy wrote:

Btw. what's it with these "3 years later", is it confirmed that it'll be 3 years later? I read that a lot online, but never found a source.

This is a quote from ACD German "Empty House":


Ich habe in den letzten drei Jahren so oft meinen Stift angesetzt, um Ihnen einen Brief zu schreiben, aber jedes Mal fürchtete ich, daß Sie aus Sorge um mich versucht sind, sich zu verplappern und dadurch mein Geheimnis verraten.  SH talking to Watson.

http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/buch/1153/2

So it is "kind of" confirmed, yes. 

For those who are not from Berlin:
Several times during the last three years I have taken up my pen to write to you, but always I feared lest your affectionate regard for me should tempt you to some indiscretion which would betray my secret. 

Last edited by Mattlocked (July 31, 2012 10:11 am)


__________________________________

"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

July 31, 2012 12:43 pm  #160


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Indeed, Ivy - the three year span comes form the original books. However, there is no knowing if the TV show adapts this time period. They might shorten it to accommodate modern audiences - 3 years in such fast-moving times as today have a quite different tenor nowadays than back then, I reckon..


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It is the unofficial force—the Baker Street Irregulars.
Arthur Conan Doyle (1890) The Sign of the Four
 

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