BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012.

**New** CHAT ROOM - Click here!

You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



July 12, 2012 9:44 am #136


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Fetchinketch wrote:

Interesting where you are going with this saysomething!

I always interpreted it to mean that he wanted "one more miracle" to put everything back the way it was after the first one (Sherlock coming into his life).

"One more miracle" being one more chance to move forward?  I like that interpretation too.

I definetively think John will be deeply shocked ( er wird bis in innerste Mark erschüttert sein), feeling his world turning upside down (once more).
Yes, that feeling could be a push to him to move forward, giving him a impulse to tackle his life more actively fram now on.

But I have meant the authors will interlace the word "miracle" literally  somehow in a dialogue between Sherlock and John or a monologue of John.

Could be a good scene for a trailer of  3.01 "The Adventure of the Empty House" :-).

( Maybe like this:

We see flashbacks of TRF: Sherlock jumping, John mourning, the gravestone etc. Dramatic music.

We hear John´s voice from off: " Defining a miracle: Mi-rac-le. A wonder. An event or  phenomenon not fully explained by known laws of nature.
A completely unexpectet, statistically unlikely incident , maybe of a supernatural kind. For example: A ressurrection.
Experiencing a miracle:  What does is make to someone to witness such a thing?  How to bear the eversion of your life once more? I can not bear I just can´t"

Dramatic music.

We see Sherlock meeting Mycroft at London Heathrow airport, walking along Baker Street, standing still in front of John`s house.
The door is opening, John`s gaze is turning at Sherlock. John is frozing.

Sherlock´s voice : " One more miracle - for you John. "

Sequences of John crying, pushing Sherlock, Sherlock standíng in front of his one gravestone etc. )

Last edited by saysomething (July 12, 2012 3:24 pm)

 

July 12, 2012 9:59 am #137


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

The miracle idea does work well. Of course we know what John does not know. That Sherlock is not dead and that he will return. No matter how that is done in the series to John as a character it will seem, if only initially, as a miracle...a resurrection. Sherlock is something of a Wunderkind, he will have a further opportunity to prove it.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdq1pcLCUR1rs9hrro1_500.jpg
 

July 12, 2012 10:27 am #138


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Yes with some appropriate violin music in the background no doubt.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

July 21, 2012 6:55 am #139


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

oh fiddlesticks.  I  just read the transcript of TRF  for the umpteenth time.   Remember John's line,  "don't be dead, Sherlock, please?"  ??   OK.  That makes me think that John actually KNOWS  that Sherlock isn't dead.  He's just...acting the part of a grieving friend. Plus--the more I watch this episode,  the more I see it.  John walked away from the grave,  and his head sort of turned in the direction where S was standing.    That's what I think.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SHERLOCK!!!!!!
 

July 21, 2012 7:08 am #140


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

He doesn't know Sherlock is alive. It is just wishful thinking and denial that is making him say that. Above all else he wants Sherlock to not be dead. This is common in the grieving process.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdq1pcLCUR1rs9hrro1_500.jpg
 

July 21, 2012 8:37 am #141


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

I'd love to think John has any hope left but I believe him to know in his heart Sherlock could have not survived that fall - thus the grieving including denial stage.


 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
It is the unofficial force—the Baker Street Irregulars.
Arthur Conan Doyle (1890) The Sign of the Four
 

July 21, 2012 1:33 pm #142


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

sherlockskitty wrote:

oh fiddlesticks.  I  just read the transcript of TRF  for the umpteenth time.   Remember John's line,  "don't be dead, Sherlock, please?"  ??   OK.  That makes me think that John actually KNOWS  that Sherlock isn't dead.  He's just...acting the part of a grieving friend. Plus--the more I watch this episode,  the more I see it.  John walked away from the grave,  and his head sort of turned in the direction where S was standing. That's what I think.

Interesting. I've never heard anyone say they actually thought John was just acting a part at the graveside, that he knows Sherlock is alive and is just holding up his end of the partnership for appearances sake. This is actually quite an intriguing scenario to think about, isn't it. Hmmm. Only thing is, John is a doctor--- where in heck did he ever get to be such a good actor? In the scenes with the psychologist and the one with Mrs. H, well, maybe he could act that well to keep them in the dark about the truth.... but why, if he's acting like the grief-stricken friend and partner, would he continue that charade all by himself at the grave-site, talking to Sherlock, touching the stone, crying, marching away as though if he gave it one more thought he wouldn't be able to carry on anymore? In other words, I can understand the idea of him putting on a show for others, but why would he continue doing that when alone?


You have this kind of pull--  like gravity.  I'm so lucky that I fell into your orbit.
Joan Watson to Sherlock Holmes, Elementary, 2.24
 

July 21, 2012 1:54 pm #143


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

sherlockskitty wrote:

oh fiddlesticks.  I  just read the transcript of TRF  for the umpteenth time.   Remember John's line,  "don't be dead, Sherlock, please?"  ??   OK.  That makes me think that John actually KNOWS  that Sherlock isn't dead.  He's just...acting the part of a grieving friend. Plus--the more I watch this episode,  the more I see it.  John walked away from the grave,  and his head sort of turned in the direction where S was standing.    That's what I think.

So the whole scene at the psychologist's was fake?

I don't think so, do you?


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

July 21, 2012 2:15 pm #144


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

John doesn't know that Sherlock is alive. That's what I think. The turn of is head is "overinterpreted" here - or maybe just a way to change the scene. To lead the view of the audience to the right direction.
That's from a dark corner in my mind palace. I will watch TRF the third time next week, maybe it'll change my mind and I have to clean up my corners.

Last edited by Mattlocked (July 21, 2012 2:17 pm)


__________________________________

http://up.picr.de/18988807jj.jpg     http://up.picr.de/18382313cu.jpg

__________________________________

"....and you've had Lord Rickman Of The Alan...." BC, Jimmy Fallon 2013
 

July 21, 2012 2:48 pm #145


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

My own interpretation is that, in his head, John knows good and well that Sherlock is dead.  However, there is still doubt, or at least hope, in his heart.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was worth a wound–it was worth many wounds–to know the depth of loyalty and love which lay behind that cold mask. The clear, hard eyes were dimmed for a moment, and the firm lips were shaking. For the one and only time I caught a glimpse of a great heart as well as of a great brain. All my years of humble but single-minded service culminated in that moment of revelation.
 

July 21, 2012 6:29 pm #146


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

kazza474 wrote:

So the whole scene at the psychologist's was fake? I don't think so, do you?

No, and neither was that brief scene of John in the Baker St living room, barefoot, sitting in thought. He looked wrecked, empty-brained, at a loss of what to do now. The empty leather chair across from him spoke volumes. The place was....silent. All the life had gone out of it. All the energy.

Not. Faking. Does. Not. Know.   That's my take on it, for sure.


You have this kind of pull--  like gravity.  I'm so lucky that I fell into your orbit.
Joan Watson to Sherlock Holmes, Elementary, 2.24
 

July 21, 2012 6:32 pm #147


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Fetchinketch wrote:

My own interpretation is that, in his head, John knows good and well that Sherlock is dead.  However, there is still doubt, or at least hope, in his heart.

Oh, yes, he definitely has hope. Otherwise how could he have stood there and asked for the miracle of not-being-dead? He knows full well how Sherlock can surprise everyone, and now he's fully prepared to be surprised, any time good ol' Sher wants to show up again. Poor John. He really puts up with a lot, doesn't he.

I am genuinely excited about seeing how the writers are going to fix this, when the time comes. Squeeing with excitement, as a matter of fact. I hope my head doesn't explode first.


You have this kind of pull--  like gravity.  I'm so lucky that I fell into your orbit.
Joan Watson to Sherlock Holmes, Elementary, 2.24
 

July 21, 2012 6:34 pm #148


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

Mattlocked wrote:

.... a dark corner in my mind palace. I will watch TRF the third time next week, maybe it'll change my mind and I have to clean up my corners.

Your mind palace! lolololol  Yes, mind palaces can get disorganized and cob-webby, can't they.

I have now watched TRF all the way through 5 times and my fave parts at least 20. I think I have parts of it memorized. Some of the most fascinating TV I've ever seen.


You have this kind of pull--  like gravity.  I'm so lucky that I fell into your orbit.
Joan Watson to Sherlock Holmes, Elementary, 2.24
 

July 21, 2012 6:53 pm #149


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

ancientsgate wrote:

Mattlocked wrote:

.... a dark corner in my mind palace. I will watch TRF the third time next week, maybe it'll change my mind and I have to clean up my corners.

Your mind palace! lolololol  Yes, mind palaces can get disorganized and cob-webby, can't they.

Oh yes, really.... Have to commit that, compared to Sherlock, mine is more kind of...... mind-shelf.... But quite disorganized anyway. Only thing sorted as far as I possible is the "Sherlock-corner". Everything else starts falling away to the sides... Lying on the dusty floor... Ready for being picked up again later... maybe in some years... 


__________________________________

http://up.picr.de/18988807jj.jpg     http://up.picr.de/18382313cu.jpg

__________________________________

"....and you've had Lord Rickman Of The Alan...." BC, Jimmy Fallon 2013
 

July 21, 2012 6:54 pm #150


Re: How will John react when he finds out Sherlock isn't dead?

No. I still believe that John knows Sherlock is dead but he cannot accept it. The comment about the miracle is him being still in a state of denial HOWEVER it does serve a clear dramatic purpose. From there, almost immediately afterwards the camera cuts to a shot of Sherlock, very much alive and well.

We see that as the audience; we are let into the secret. Unlike the original story where Sherlock Holmes dies at the Reichenbach Falls and is only subsequently resurrected due to the pressure exerted by the readership upon Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

Of course the little speech that John makes at the graveside resounds with dramatic irony. He is basically giving a eulogy for a man we, at the end, know is not dead. If John really believed Sherlock to be alive or capable of defying death through some kind of miracle he would not be as clearly devastated as he is.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdq1pcLCUR1rs9hrro1_500.jpg
 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost Free Forums