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November 20, 2013 1:50 pm  #21


Re: Germanfans

Marva wrote:

SolarSystem wrote:

It's quite interesting, in the dubbed version they sometimes say stuff they never ever say in the original version. I was watching all episodes again just recently in the dubbed version with a friend, because her English isn't that good. And several times I just had to inform her "you know, he doesn't say that in the original version". Sorry, I guess I should have taken notes because I don't remember in which scenes that was... I just remember that it was completely unnecessary.

now I am really curious to know what they might have added (or removed) in the German version

It was nothing extreme and nothing that altered the meaning of a complete scene or anything. Just tiny details (I'm not sure, but I think one example can be found in the Cluedo-scene...), which I found even more irritating because there really was no need to make these alterations.
I really should have taken notes... http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

 


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?"
http://picload.org/image/wcodogr/jungssignatur.jpg

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

November 20, 2013 3:36 pm  #22


Re: Germanfans

One thing that confused me in the beginning (not due to alterations, just a difference between English and German) was Moriarty's sentence: "I owe you a fall." In German at first I thought of "Fall" in the sense of case. 
 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

November 20, 2013 3:46 pm  #23


Re: Germanfans

Maybe it is meant to mean "Fall" (case) with all the German references. And Moriarty provides Sherlock with a last case when he delivered the Bruhl case where Sherlock was the suspect.
Maybe it is a reference to the last pip from TGG. Always provided that the Bruce-Partington case was not the last pip. Moriarty said that he could have got the plans anyway.

Anyway it is a nice play with words and double meaning.

 

November 20, 2013 4:38 pm  #24


Re: Germanfans

I thought about that too.
I was also confused, because I wasn't sure at all if I got the meaning of IOU (a fall) right (I'm not even sure yet) and wondered if it could have the meaning of 'case'.
Do you know if 'fall' can also mean 'case'?


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That...was amazing.
 

November 20, 2013 4:42 pm  #25


Re: Germanfans

Be wrote:

Anyway it is a nice play with words and double meaning.

That was my thought about it. I can't see the connection to another fall (case) that should follow. Moriaty wanted to destroy him. Fall in terms of Sherlock's "end"?
Yes, that doesn't make it easier with the German dubbing.


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Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

November 20, 2013 6:05 pm  #26


Re: Germanfans

Actually, I quite liked this double meaning of the word "Fall" in German. Even it it wasn't intended by the writers (and it's clear that it wasn't), it somehow fits that it can mean "Fall" as in "herunterfallen" as well as in "Kriminalfall". After Moriarty leaves Sherlock there soon is another case, and I guess it's obvious that this case was instigated by Moriarty. So he did provide another case for Sherlock - and I guess you could even consider the whole Richard Brook-thing a case, because after all it is a puzzle Sherlock has to solve, right?

But then some things just don't really work in German, like the opening scene of TGG. You just can't translate this grammar stuff into German without altering it a bit here and there.

Last edited by SolarSystem (November 20, 2013 6:06 pm)


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?"
http://picload.org/image/wcodogr/jungssignatur.jpg

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

November 20, 2013 6:16 pm  #27


Re: Germanfans

I absolutely agree with you, Solar. The non-intended double meaning with "fall" is nice and the grammar jokes do not work. 

Btw, there was a silly but funny gif on tumblr where Moriarty says "I owe you a fall" and starts showering Sherlock with autumn leaves. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

November 20, 2013 6:18 pm  #28


Re: Germanfans

Autumn leaves... great! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/lol.png


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?"
http://picload.org/image/wcodogr/jungssignatur.jpg

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

November 21, 2013 5:28 am  #29


Re: Germanfans

I accidentally started watching Sherlock (the German version) in the middle of Scandal and was in love instantly. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.png


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I still believe that love conquers all!

http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/f78f2088-06ef-444c-b254-d9efa841bc19_zps435390b3.png      http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/140545df-e987-4a67-9272-fa8b2742790c_zpsa8b00ed8.png

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

November 21, 2013 7:31 pm  #30


Re: Germanfans

I'm not German but speak it well. I know we have mentioned it before but I just cannot understand why the German dubbed version used sie. The equivalent in English 'Thee' is hardly used anywhere in the UK now. It is archaic and practically everyone tends to use 'you'. Of course in German it then has the unfortunate effect of making it all far too formal.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
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November 21, 2013 7:35 pm  #31


Re: Germanfans

Yes, this is the dubbing's weakest point IMO. They have done quite well, not perfect, but then translation is always an approximation. As such it is quite good. But I cannot understand why they kept the "Sie" throughout the whole series. They had the chance at the very beginning when they meet in front of 221B and Sherlock says "Sherlock, please." Two men of this age living together as friends would never ever say "Sie" to each other. Of course there is the Canon tradition using this form of address but after all this is 21st century Sherlock Holmes. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

December 9, 2013 10:28 am  #32


Re: Germanfans

I hope you don't mind me piping in to this interesting convo.
I have watched both the German and English version of Sherlock and I believe the reason why they still say Sie is cause it shows in some ways the kinda hidden respect they have for each other. You can hear it in English by the way they talk to each other (I know I know, Sherlock has a lovely way to make others feel like complete idiots). But still, I believe that's the only way to keep a special atmosphere between them, which in English is a lot easier than in German. And maybe because in the books they call each other Holmes and Watson, which back then wasn't unusual they tried to keep it as close to that as possible. And since this wouldn't really work nowadays they focused more on the keep-the-respect-as-good-as-possible thing...
Shen.

 

December 9, 2013 10:30 am  #33


Re: Germanfans

Lol meant popping in, damn auto correction. ;-)

 

December 9, 2013 10:34 am  #34


Re: Germanfans

But the atmosphere and the chemistry in the original version works much better as in the German one with the Sie. I don't think that it helps in the German dubbing. Funny, you are the first one who I know defending the Siezen. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

No problem of course. If it is your opinion.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

December 9, 2013 10:50 am  #35


Re: Germanfans

gently69 wrote:

But the atmosphere and the chemistry in the original version works much better as in the German one with the Sie. I don't think that it helps in the German dubbing. Funny, you are the first one who I know defending the Siezen. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

No problem of course. If it is your opinion.

Believe me when I tell you that I've never been a fan of Siezen in general. But I was watching both seasons on two different nights with my sister, in German cause she doesn't speak English well. She said to me,  after I told her that they don't do that in English, the English language maybe doesn't have to make a difference cause it's how they talk to each other. I was like maybe you're right. So I watched it again in OT and IMO she was right.

 

December 9, 2013 11:42 am  #36


Re: Germanfans

For me one problem with this form of address is that it is quite artifical. In Germany you either say "du" or "Sie" and then you have the funny "Frau Schmitz, komm mal her" from the supermarket. But "Sie" combined with the first name is mostly used to convey something in between the formal and the informal address and used in films or books. I cannot remember if I know anyone from real life using this combination. 

And imagine standing at your best friend's grave and begging him to come back and saying "Sie". Sorry, but it does not work for me. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

December 9, 2013 11:49 am  #37


Re: Germanfans

The "Sie" worked for me until I watched the original. Since my family and friends who watch Sherlock in the german version are not complaining about it I won't do either.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Falling is just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination."

"Sherlock Holmes is a great man, and I think one day—if we’re very very lucky—he might even be a good one."

"Would you like to-"
"-have dinner?"
"-solve crimes?"
"Oh"



http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh602/Chiavra/ebd74ea2-f90d-45d6-98e3-63472f860813_zpsceaa7b31.jpg?t=1369572633
 

December 9, 2013 11:53 am  #38


Re: Germanfans

SusiGo wrote:

And imagine standing at your best friend's grave and begging him to come back and saying "Sie". Sorry, but it does not work for me. 

That's a really good point.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

December 9, 2013 12:21 pm  #39


Re: Germanfans

Hm I know where ya coming from, that grave scene...ya right, that really was strange. Agreed.
Guess it's as strange as it was for me when I moved to Ireland and no matter where or who I called for an appointment they always called me by my first name, which is common over there.

 

December 9, 2013 12:50 pm  #40


Re: Germanfans

If they had wanted it to be realistic, they should have Sherlock and John alternate between du and sie in the first episode after Sherlock offered his first name, when they are in this akward stage when you are still unsure what adress you should use, and use "du" from the second episode onwards.

But in the end, the main problem is that the english accent is just not translatable. I am ready to bet that most German obsessive Sherlock Fans are the ones who watch movies and series in english regularly.

 

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