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May 1, 2018 6:57 pm  #8141


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

As I have said before :  I would have been delighted if Mark and Steven had gone down the gay route.
But I understand why they didn't and am pleased with how the series turned out.
Well, people might have hoped for all sorts.
But I remain delighted at the modern portrayal of the greatest ever literary male friendship.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

May 1, 2018 7:05 pm  #8142


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Here is an interesting little video by the team: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqM-DvL9N_s


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

May 1, 2018 7:08 pm  #8143


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Well, they definitely acknowledged and referenced Johnlock.  But in the end, they chose to show friendship, and I do believe it wasn't because of lack of courage, but because of the way they saw the characters.  Especially as the world has moved on since 2010 ... even if they'd been scared to show it then, it would have been much easier to do so in later years.  

(The Time Out article was supposed to be humorous, I think!)

 

May 1, 2018 7:11 pm  #8144


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

But why this change of heart? I still find it doubtful to create such expectations, reference such tropes, and then to go down a route where John's wife is present in more than half of the episodes (something no other adaptation has ever done, Granada Holmes even omitting her completely). I really feel for the people - many of them very young - for whom this was personally important and who felt let down. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

May 1, 2018 7:16 pm  #8145


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I am sorry, Susi. This is something I do feel quite strongly about.
A show can be outstanding for many reasons and yes certainly, one of them could be for being ground breaking in presenting any partcular cause,  issue, group or whatever....
But all TV doesn't have to be like that.
Sherlock was a reimagining of the classic ACD stories, that is all.
It worked for me.
TV makers are beholdant to nobody except themselves and the company they work for...
Once again, this is why we have fan fiction.
Incidentally, maybe I've just been lucky:  but my gay friends don't have a problem with the show at all.

Last edited by besleybean (May 1, 2018 7:17 pm)


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

May 1, 2018 7:32 pm  #8146


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Aw, that is lovely! I'm glad someone finally made it.

I would of course have wished for it to be "our" Sherlock and John as well, but I never thought it had anything to do with guts. 


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

May 1, 2018 8:06 pm  #8147


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I don't think there was a change of heart.  I think they took the friendship path right from the beginning (while acknowledging how shippable they were). 

I feel sorry for the people who were so invested too.  I hope they were OK after S4.  I'm hoping that maybe some of them got into the last series of Doctor Who (with its gay main character - a lovely role model for young people!). 

 

May 1, 2018 8:15 pm  #8148


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

There are enough adaptations which go down the friendship route and BBC Sherlock is remarkably different. If there had been no romantic elements, Martin probably would never have made that "gayest show in TV history". As for stressing (IMHO) John's relationship at the cost of the "Sherlock and John Show" I would like to quote Jeremy Brett:

"The character of Mary Morstan was removed from the stories in which she originally features: nothing ought to get in between Holmes and Watson. She would have got in the way. Watson was more in love with Holmes - in a pure sense - than he could have been with a woman."
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

May 1, 2018 8:18 pm  #8149


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Anyhow, I'm with Martin(see his quote in the othert thread):
I don't like the tail wagging the dog.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

May 2, 2018 8:32 am  #8150


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

That´s a bit out of context, isn´t it? In fact, he said:

"There's a certain aspect that some fans are going to run with the ball and make their own thing out of your show – which is completely fair enough, as long as we all acknowledge that that is what is happening. I think when you get into a slightly tail-wagging-the-dog scenario, that gets boring for me."

The quote you made out of it sounds as if he treated the audience like his handlers, which is not the case.

Anyway, I´m really glad for that short movie and wish them all the luck and success. If big BBC echelons are not willing to fulfill fan´s expectations, somebody else will do it - which is fair and square. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

May 2, 2018 7:48 pm  #8151


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

And of course people are free to watch every series they choose to.
I remain solidly a BBC Sherlock fan.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

May 17, 2018 11:09 am  #8152


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Not bad, not bad at all!

https://78.media.tumblr.com/e594fcd0927bcb7cf3c963432557b79e/tumblr_p80v1wkuKe1v1dibmo1_1280.jpg

https://78.media.tumblr.com/bff413f87e8349e15859e50c2e170a01/tumblr_p80v1wkuKe1v1dibmo2_1280.jpg

https://78.media.tumblr.com/1f3f7f81a843fc7cddf5482b3e8653ff/tumblr_p80v1wkuKe1v1dibmo3_1280.jpg


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

May 17, 2018 1:30 pm  #8153


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

About time! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

May 17, 2018 5:34 pm  #8154


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Aww http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/love.png

 

May 17, 2018 7:25 pm  #8155


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

That is great. :D


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

May 23, 2018 10:55 am  #8156


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

https://78.media.tumblr.com/aa9626acc588ad899675229c5b6faf0e/tumblr_p8xs8wkpg11wdbu7so1_500.jpg


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

May 23, 2018 10:57 am  #8157


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I watched it and it is a lovely little film. Hopefully only the beginning. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

June 5, 2018 8:23 am  #8158


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

An interesting article (summary of a podcast, I think) concerning TJLC, fandom and the creators. It seems this is only part one so I am looking forward to future parts!

https://slate.com/culture/2018/06/the-johnlock-conspiracy-sherlock-fans-disagree-with-the-shows-creators-about-holmes-and-watsons-relationship.html">Who Gets To Decide if a Fictional Character is Gay?

(I had to open the link in Explorer for it to work, because in Chrome, the "Accept"-button didn't work).


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

June 5, 2018 12:14 pm  #8159


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I read that yesterday.  Very interesting.


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Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German   http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.gif
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
http://media-cache-ec3.pinimg.com/736x/aa/2b/35/aa2b352725f4c944599a3ea17cbfe44e.jpg    https://31.media.tumblr.com/bb0f8896a79d19602eeaea0254ff5ccd/tumblr_n5ztxjGDB61stgn3no1_500.jpg
 
 

June 5, 2018 12:30 pm  #8160


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

For me it does not work either in Opera nor in Chrome. No idea why. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/depressed.png


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

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