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September 29, 2013 2:36 pm  #21


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

besleybean wrote:

Apologies, OT here.
But Sally's prime concern should be society being protected from criminals, which is exactly what Sherlock does.

She's right not to trust Sherlock...he doesn't have to follow rules, he goes off on his own and does things that can mess up a conviction.  Sherlock doesn't always do the smart thing- like letting Irene Adler get the best of him, or trying to lure Moriarty out with classified missile plans.  Even Sherlock thinks that the only thing that separates him from the criminal classes is because he chooses not to be a criminal (he only learns that this isn't true in TRF).  But Sherlock isn't infallible, even if he might choose to think so- and even if others might choose to see him that way.  And he's definitely not above reproach.  It's easy for us as the audience to romanticize a character like Sherlock who is dark and dangerous, but working with someone like that when lives are on the line requires a different mindset.

Last edited by sj4iy (September 29, 2013 2:42 pm)


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

September 29, 2013 3:35 pm  #22


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Canon Sherlock Holmes is not just opposed the relationships with women. He considers romantic feelings in general beneath him because he thinks that this would influence his mind negatively (I think the relevant quote was in my last update of the reference list).

And concerning Donnovan: I think she is right not to trust Sherlock. But I also think that her triumphant behavior towards John in TRF was very unprofessional.

 

September 29, 2013 4:05 pm  #23


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Swanpride wrote:

And concerning Donnovan: I think she is right not to trust Sherlock. But I also think that her triumphant behavior towards John in TRF was very unprofessional.

I completely agree with that.


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

September 29, 2013 7:10 pm  #24


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I enjoy johnlock and watch the BBC show with my slashglasses firmly in place.  Even if it's not what they are going for the chemistry between the two leads makes it very easy for me to indulge.  No one has to agree with me, just let me have my fun.

And in agreement with other posts I dislike people who take it overboard on either side of the argument.  This forum alone offers proof that everyone who doesn't ship Johnlock is NOT a homophobe, but I have seen some awfully hateful posts in other places.   I've seen Johnlock discribed as disgusting, imoral and sick.  IMO these people are also a disgrace to our fandom.

 


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"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
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"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

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September 29, 2013 7:19 pm  #25


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Wow.  I have honestly never encountered that before.That is horrendous.
Where have you seen these things?


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September 29, 2013 7:38 pm  #26


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Pinerest comments.  Some on IMGUR.   A couple of lesser discussion forums I immediately abandoned in my search for a "Sherlock homebase."


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German   http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.gif
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
http://media-cache-ec3.pinimg.com/736x/aa/2b/35/aa2b352725f4c944599a3ea17cbfe44e.jpg    https://31.media.tumblr.com/bb0f8896a79d19602eeaea0254ff5ccd/tumblr_n5ztxjGDB61stgn3no1_500.jpg
 
 

September 29, 2013 7:41 pm  #27


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Plus some comments here on this board in former times, quite a while ago. I remember them well.


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

September 29, 2013 7:43 pm  #28


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Really, Harriet?
That's disappopinting.
Maybe before my time.


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September 29, 2013 7:44 pm  #29


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Could be before your time. Could be around your arrival time. I think these days are over.


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

September 29, 2013 7:45 pm  #30


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

We can only hope so.


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September 29, 2013 8:22 pm  #31


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Anybody who's homophobic really shouldn't be in the fandom, because that means they're against Mark Gatiss. Which is obviously just completely stupid.


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Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.

Independent OSAJ Affiliate

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     Thread Starter
 

September 29, 2013 8:23 pm  #32


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

sj4iy wrote:

NotYourHousekeeperDear wrote:

I think Sherlock's apparent lack of interest in relationships with women could be argued as being more telling, especially as it would have been less typical of the time.

I don't see how it's telling of anything other than Sherlock Holmes was not a man interested in marriage.  Even if he had never met Watson, the chances of his marrying anyone was nil.  He is simply too obsessed with his work to ever give consideration to a romantic relationship.
 

 
True! His lack of interest in a relationship is perhaps only suggestive of his asexuality.


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September 29, 2013 8:24 pm  #33


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Everyone I have encountered as an active poster here seems to be pretty tolerant of other's opinions.  


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German   http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.gif
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
http://media-cache-ec3.pinimg.com/736x/aa/2b/35/aa2b352725f4c944599a3ea17cbfe44e.jpg    https://31.media.tumblr.com/bb0f8896a79d19602eeaea0254ff5ccd/tumblr_n5ztxjGDB61stgn3no1_500.jpg
 
 

September 29, 2013 8:26 pm  #34


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

@the boss.
And Ian and the orhers who aren't out!
I once belonged to a  forum where homophobia was completely banned and people got thrown off if they displayed it.  That's up to the Admin, of course.
I once got thrown out of a Yahoo group, because I defended a gay guy that the Admin had kicked out.

Last edited by besleybean (September 29, 2013 8:27 pm)


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September 29, 2013 8:29 pm  #35


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Anybody who's homophobic really shouldn't be in the fandom, because that means they're against Mark Gatiss. Which is obviously just completely stupid.

I was not talking about homophobia. I was talking about rude anti-Johnlock speech, supporting the issue tonnaree brought up.


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

September 29, 2013 8:33 pm  #36


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

tonnaree wrote:

I enjoy johnlock and watch the BBC show with my slashglasses firmly in place.  Even if it's not what they are going for the chemistry between the two leads makes it very easy for me to indulge.

I completely agree. And I would even take it a step further and say that it's not just the chemistry between the two leads that makes it easy to let your mind wander into the direction of Johnlock. Because even if Mark and Steven say that they 'only' went for bromance, I think that they nevertheless paved the way for a bit more with their writing. Because honestly, they really don't need this "He's not my date" running gag sort of thing for bromance... so why include it? Why have Angelo or Irene voice stuff like "For you and your date" or "Somebody loves you"? You really don't need these things to make the bromance work, I would rather say that these things almost beg you to start thinking into the direction of 'could there be more...?'.
So if they really didn't want to give the audience any ideas which go further than bromance, why include those innuendos? I just don't get it.

 


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"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

September 29, 2013 8:53 pm  #37


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I agree with you, Solar. There is a lot of innuendo and not only of a sexual kind. Think of Jeanette's anger or the dialogue about people going on dates from TBB. It is never explicit but somehow lingers in the background. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

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September 29, 2013 8:56 pm  #38


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

But that's all how other characters perceive them  and to be fair, it's mainly part of Sherlock being seen as different.
Well I personally think the writers did a great job and I have no complaints.
Well, apart from the union jack cushion so far and I think I may have more complaints next series!


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September 29, 2013 8:58 pm  #39


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

What about the cushion?


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

September 29, 2013 9:04 pm  #40


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

That's true, Susi. Or think of Mrs. Hudson in TGG asking Sherlock if they'd had a "little domestic" or in ASiP her "There's another bedroom upstairs...". It's there, and it goes beyond bromance.

And yes, I know that it's always other people who are bringing this up, it's not John or Sherlock. John only reacts to it, Sherlock doesn't even do that. But it's almost as if Mark and Steven are using those other characters and there explicit statements to show the audience what to look out for...? If these things weren't articulated in that way, maybe Johnlock wouldn't be as apparent as it sometimes seems to be to many of us.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?"

http://picload.org/image/lcpldgo/berlinsigneu2.jpghttp://picload.org/image/lcpldgc/berlinsigneu3.jpghttp://picload.org/image/lcpldgw/berlinsigneu.jpghttp://picload.org/image/wcodogr/jungssignatur.jpg

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

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