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March 22, 2012 12:44 pm  #1


Book Club 22/03/12 (EMPT)

OK...I now declare the first meeting of the Sherlock Book Club officially open!

The story we're reading this week is The Empty House which for those of you who don't know, contains the return of Sherlock Holmes - that should put everyone in a good mood!

It's Thursday today so we'll give everyone till next Thursday to read it...then we'll discuss it! 


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March 22, 2012 10:45 pm  #2


Re: Book Club 22/03/12 (EMPT)

I just read it last week but I shall go back and read it again


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March 23, 2012 4:43 am  #3


Re: Book Club 22/03/12 (EMPT)

I've been reading The Empty House before but I also have it as an audio book which I will listen to  while going to work.


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


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March 24, 2012 6:09 pm  #4


Re: Book Club 22/03/12 (EMPT)

Got to find it now and read it again.


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March 29, 2012 7:58 am  #5


Re: Book Club 22/03/12 (EMPT)

Ok, so it's the end of the week and time to discuss this week's story The Empty House. What did you all think of it? What were some of your favourite bits and how do you think Moftiss might make us of any of it?

Personally, it's one of my favourite ones I've read so far. I love the use of a dummy and that scene where they're waiting to see what happens then Moran walks in and sets up his gun not even knowing they're there. Real tense stuff. I think that scene would translate really well on screen.


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March 29, 2012 9:43 am  #6


Re: Book Club 22/03/12 (EMPT)

I also really liked the part where Moran, unwittingly, walks into the house whilst they are on watch and sets up his gun. The tension is really well built up.

The idea of Mrs. Hudson crawling around on her hands and knees in order to turn the dummy for Sherlock is just greeat and shows you what a reliable person she is for Sherlock.

I also liked the way the reaction of Moran towards Sherlock is described. It makes me smile in a gloating kind of way, probably much like Sherlock.


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March 29, 2012 9:47 am  #7


Re: Book Club 22/03/12 (EMPT)

Oh and the other part I thought was particularly interesting was the way in which Moran"'s career was described. When it is quite clear that he would have been expected to be an upstanding member of society but went bad. This is interesting because many people would have thought that criminality was 'bad blood will out' whereas this shows that someone from a perfectly respectable background with ancestors and relatives who have been honest can go to the dark side.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
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March 29, 2012 10:26 am  #8


Re: Book Club 22/03/12 (EMPT)

I think the story can pretty much be done in the show without much modification. I loved Mrs Hudson's involvement too - and the fact that she's the only one he initially tells and she's kept Baker St pretty much as it was.

Not sure how they'll interpret Moran knowing Sherlock is alive though as it definitely wasn't witnessed in the BBC version.

I find Watson's reaction to seeing Holmes at a crime scene 3 years on quite unrealistic though. It's almost like "Oh, hello Holmes, thought you were dead. Nice to see you" so I am looking forward to how they will do the reunion.


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March 29, 2012 12:57 pm  #9


Re: Book Club 22/03/12 (EMPT)

Maybe Moran could spot Sherlock somewhere abroad and realise he's not dead. Although Sherlock will also need to know that Moran knows he's not dead. There needs to be something that prompts Sherlock's return to London at that specific time.

The way they play the reunion will be very interesting indeed. I've thought a lot about how they might do it...whether it would be a chance meeting and they just bump into each other, whether Sherlock would just go back to Baker Street and turn up out of the blue, or John gets picked up by one of Mycroft's cars and taken to unknown location like when he finds out Irene isn't dead...whatever they choose it's going to be pretty emotional. I don't think John will faint though.

We'll have to get a big recap and explanation of how he did it, like in the book but with the usual Sherlock flashback moments.


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March 29, 2012 3:09 pm  #10


Re: Book Club 22/03/12 (EMPT)

No I don't think John will faint either but he might think he's cracking up! You know like wish fulfilment or something.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
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March 29, 2012 5:30 pm  #11


Re: Book Club 22/03/12 (EMPT)

I'm afraid I get het up a bit over the Empty House story...

Apart from the case which I find quite enjoyable…

(rant mode on)

…I absolutely dislike the way Holmes behaves towards Watson.
And I fail to understand the way Watson behaves towards Holmes!

Examples:
"My dear Watson," said the well-remembered voice, "I owe you a thousand apologies. I had no idea that you would be so affected… I have given you a serious shock by my unnecessarily dramatic reappearance."

Sincere regret looks different, Mr. Holmes! How dare you getting yourself out so easily! Do you have the slightest idea what you’ve been doing to your friend?


Holmes: "You'll come with me to-night?"
Watson: "When you like and where you like."


Have you taken leave of your senses, Dr. Watson? Everything is forgotten and forgiven in an instant? Kicking his knee would be an acceptable behaviour – in no way this servile behaviour!

"I had only one confidant -- my brother Mycroft. I owe you many apologies, my dear Watson, but it was all-important that it should be thought I was dead, and it is quite certain that you would not have written so convincing an account of my unhappy end had you not yourself thought that it was true. Several times during the last three years I have taken up my pen to write to you, but always I feared lest your affectionate regard for me should tempt you to some indiscretion which would betray my secret."

What about an “affectionate regard�  for your friend Watson, Mr. Holmes? Hasn’t there been any?

"I found myself in my old armchair in my own old room, and only wishing that I could have seen my old friend Watson in the other chair which he has so often adorned."

Well, at least here Holmes shows some affection. He does miss his Watson!
(No, not really… It’s nothing but selfishness!)


I’m disappointed in you, Sir Arthur.
To me, it seems that you didn’t feel much like elaborating Holmes’ sudden reappearance and the effect it must have had on Watson.
You try to save your skin out of this awkward situation by jumping quickly into a new case.
And you make Watson act like a machine.

(rant mode off)

Last edited by tobeornot221b (March 29, 2012 5:30 pm)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!
http://up.picr.de/25572077rl.jpg



                                                                                                                  
 

March 29, 2012 7:09 pm  #12


Re: Book Club 22/03/12 (EMPT)

But that's Sherlock all over. It's completely in character...totally unaware and oblivious to the effect his absence and "death" would have had upon his only friend. He doesn't ever intend to hurt or upset people...that's just the way he is. Watson would follow him anywhere and everywhere to the ends of the earth. I think our John will be a bit more angry when Sherlock makes his reappearance in Series 3, but ultimately he's still going to forgive him pretty quickly, especially if they're just thrown into a life threatening situation together immediately.


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March 30, 2012 2:16 am  #13


Re: Book Club 22/03/12 (EMPT)

ACD did it that way because he stopped writing Sherlock. He killed him off because it irritated him that his 'hobby project' was more popular than his other works. He only started writing him again (3 years later) due to popular demand. So he probably figured that everyone KNEW why there'd been a hiatus. It wasn't a literary choice, it was just the way it was. And I suspect that for ACD, the character relationships were peripheral. He was more interested in the stories/plots/deductions.

Most of today's audience are as interested (if not more interested, as I am) in the characters, relationships, journey's etc as they are in the plots & stories; so it will have to be handled differently.


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March 30, 2012 9:46 pm  #14


Re: Book Club 22/03/12 (EMPT)

Any suggestions for next week's Book Club?


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March 30, 2012 9:48 pm  #15


Re: Book Club 22/03/12 (EMPT)

Do you know I think my favourite bit in this story was Watson's noticing of the loitering men across the street, Sherlock's complete dismissal of them, and then the reveal that they were actually policemen. I was all "Yay to Watson for noticing them, but boo they were totally NOT criminals" hahaha


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I dislike being outnumbered. It makes for too much stupid in the room

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March 30, 2012 10:02 pm  #16


Re: Book Club 22/03/12 (EMPT)

Well since we've just looked at the return from the dead of Sherlock Holmes in The Empty House maybe we could read The Final Problem, which is where he 'dies'.


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
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March 31, 2012 12:35 am  #17


Re: Book Club 22/03/12 (EMPT)

Working backwards in time...I like it!


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August 12, 2013 11:12 am  #18


Re: Book Club 22/03/12 (EMPT)

Well, I'm late to the party, but I hope it's okay to add my two sense:

I don't like this story, mostly because it seems so fragmented. It's like there are important details missing. Like: What exactly is Moran's motivation? What was the point of Holmes pretending to be dead whan Moriarty's right hand knew all along he survived? He could have easily passed on word. What is the point of the murder of Adair in the grand scheme of things? How did Holmes know that Moran would try to kill him that very night?

Add to that the unbelievable laid back reaction of Watson (You are alive? *faints* Oh, I'm okay now, let's go on an adventure) , and I really don't feel that story at all. I hope the show comes up with something better.

 

January 17, 2014 4:55 pm  #19


Re: Book Club 22/03/12 (EMPT)

tobeornot221b wrote:

I'm afraid I get het up a bit over the Empty House story...

Apart from the case which I find quite enjoyable…

(rant mode on)

…I absolutely dislike the way Holmes behaves towards Watson.
And I fail to understand the way Watson behaves towards Holmes!

Examples:
"My dear Watson," said the well-remembered voice, "I owe you a thousand apologies. I had no idea that you would be so affected… I have given you a serious shock by my unnecessarily dramatic reappearance."

Sincere regret looks different, Mr. Holmes! How dare you getting yourself out so easily! Do you have the slightest idea what you’ve been doing to your friend?


Holmes: "You'll come with me to-night?"
Watson: "When you like and where you like."


Have you taken leave of your senses, Dr. Watson? Everything is forgotten and forgiven in an instant? Kicking his knee would be an acceptable behaviour – in no way this servile behaviour!

"I had only one confidant -- my brother Mycroft. I owe you many apologies, my dear Watson, but it was all-important that it should be thought I was dead, and it is quite certain that you would not have written so convincing an account of my unhappy end had you not yourself thought that it was true. Several times during the last three years I have taken up my pen to write to you, but always I feared lest your affectionate regard for me should tempt you to some indiscretion which would betray my secret."

What about an “affectionate regard� for your friend Watson, Mr. Holmes? Hasn’t there been any?

"I found myself in my old armchair in my own old room, and only wishing that I could have seen my old friend Watson in the other chair which he has so often adorned."

Well, at least here Holmes shows some affection. He does miss his Watson!
(No, not really… It’s nothing but selfishness!)



I’m disappointed in you, Sir Arthur.
To me, it seems that you didn’t feel much like elaborating Holmes’ sudden reappearance and the effect it must have had on Watson.
You try to save your skin out of this awkward situation by jumping quickly into a new case.
And you make Watson act like a machine.

(rant mode off)

The whole reunion is pure Johnlock, but especially, Watson fainting and how Watson is more happy to have Holmes back than anything else. One favorite theory of Johnlock shippers is that Holmes ran away because he couldn't stand sharing Watson with a wife, and that Watson forgives perhaps because he understands that Holmes viewed his (Watson's) marriage as "Watson leaving him."

And I've often wondered if Watson blames himself for not figuring it out. If he thinks, "I should have believed in Sherlock Holmes."

Jeremy Brett caresses his Watson's face has he's waking him up, but they tried to show Watson a little more hurt.

And then there is Holmes' line quoting Cleopatra: "I trust age does not whither..." which is pretty close to asking, "Do you still find me attractive and interesting?"

And although it's not in EMPT, I've always thought the whole, "I sold my practice because he asked me to and moved back in with him," seems like their "getting married." If Watson sells his practice, he must either be  being supported by Holmes, or else taking a cut of Holmes' fees. Either way, it feels like he's making a commitment to be a partner to Holmes, in some sense, for the long haul.

 

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