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June 12, 2012 2:33 am  #41


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

This is fun, although you've all already picked some of my favorites.
By the way, the clue of "rache" in Study in Scarlet is a red herring, I think. So it's especially funny that Anderson in Study in Pink thinks it's a real clue and Sherlock debunks it. (I'm remembering right, am I not?)
Not sure if this qualifies, but in the originals, Watson refers to Holmes as a machine more than once. In Sherlock, when he refuses to go with John to see the supposedly injured Mrs. Hudson, John angrily says, "You machine!" At least I think he does. He sort of catches himself.

 

June 12, 2012 2:47 am  #42


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

veecee wrote:

By the way, the clue of "rache" in Study in Scarlet is a red herring, I think. So it's especially funny that Anderson in Study in Pink thinks it's a real clue and Sherlock debunks it. (I'm remembering right, am I not?)

Yes, rache is a red (no pun intended) herring in "Scarlet". To add to the allusion, in the novel, Lestrade is convinced the killer was writing the name Rachel, which is of course the real clue in Sherlock.


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June 12, 2012 2:49 am  #43


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

Sherli Bakerst wrote:

Do these count:

In The Adventure of the Blue Carbuncle, which I just finished reading, there is mention of a prison called "Pentonville;" the thief is relating to Holmes how he stole the item and mentions a friend who was incarcerated there.  And in Hound of the Baskervilles, there was a prisoner who escaped from Pentonville Prison, if I remember correctly.  Pentonville, as we all know, is the prison that Moriarty unlocked in [b]The Reichenbach Fall/b].

Great catch, Sherli!


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June 12, 2012 6:40 pm  #44


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

Smoggy_London_Air wrote:

6. Almost the entire Buckingham Palace consultation is a reference to The Illustrious Client, from Sherlock's sheet (he had been taking a Turkish bath when he told Watson about the case) to Sherlock refuses to take the case on the basis that there was mystery at both ends.

7. Sherlock's use of the riding crop is a reference to what I think is The Speckled Band, where Watson mentions Sherlock's favorite weapon: a "loaded hunting crop".

8. The "243 types of tobacco ash" that Sherlock can identify in Scandal is a reference to a monograph that canon Holmes wrote on the subject, mentioned in Study.

9. "Mrs. Turner next-door has got married ones," is a gibe at Conan Doyle's apparent amnesia in A Scandal In Bohemia. For some reason their landlady has mysteriously morphed into a "Mrs. Turner".

Regarding number nine, excellent catch! I wonder if they'll work in the point where John was briefly called James. I don't remember which story it was in. Also, on John's blog there is a cute turn on the Hudson/Turner mixup. I won't spoil it if you haven't seen it. Take a look.

Speaking of names, in the canon, Holmes refers to Lestrade and Gregson as the "smartest of the Scotland Yarders." Do you think Lestrade's first name coming up to be Greg is a nod to that -- combining the two -- in The Hounds of Baskerville? (I haven't finished rereading all the stories yet, so maybe we do find out later that Lestrade's name actually is Greg.)

 

June 13, 2012 2:50 am  #45


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

veecee wrote:

Smoggy_London_Air wrote:

6. Almost the entire Buckingham Palace consultation is a reference to The Illustrious Client, from Sherlock's sheet (he had been taking a Turkish bath when he told Watson about the case) to Sherlock refuses to take the case on the basis that there was mystery at both ends.

7. Sherlock's use of the riding crop is a reference to what I think is The Speckled Band, where Watson mentions Sherlock's favorite weapon: a "loaded hunting crop".

8. The "243 types of tobacco ash" that Sherlock can identify in Scandal is a reference to a monograph that canon Holmes wrote on the subject, mentioned in Study.

9. "Mrs. Turner next-door has got married ones," is a gibe at Conan Doyle's apparent amnesia in A Scandal In Bohemia. For some reason their landlady has mysteriously morphed into a "Mrs. Turner".

Regarding number nine, excellent catch! I wonder if they'll work in the point where John was briefly called James. I don't remember which story it was in. Also, on John's blog there is a cute turn on the Hudson/Turner mixup. I won't spoil it if you haven't seen it. Take a look.

Speaking of names, in the canon, Holmes refers to Lestrade and Gregson as the "smartest of the Scotland Yarders." Do you think Lestrade's first name coming up to be Greg is a nod to that -- combining the two -- in The Hounds of Baskerville? (I haven't finished rereading all the stories yet, so maybe we do find out later that Lestrade's name actually is Greg.)

Lestrade's first name is never given in the canon. And yes, I believe "Greg" was a reference to Gregson. Moftiss know the canon inside-out, and delight, I think, in throwing in these little gems to see if anyone will notice.


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June 13, 2012 3:03 am  #46


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

veecee wrote:

I wonder if they'll work in the point where John was briefly called James.

Well they did say in the commentary that John's middle name in both versions is Hamish.
Hamish is the Scottish version for James.
They also brought up the argument defending ACD that in some families back in those days, all boys could be named the same Christian name & have different middle names. (eg Brothers could be John James Watson, John Henry Watson & John Archibald Watson)  Hence James/Hamish could be the more 'intimate' name for Watson.

If you think long enough, anything can have an excuse.


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June 13, 2012 4:43 pm  #47


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

The title of The Great Game seems to be a reference to the "game" played by serious Sherlockian scholars under the presumption that Sherlock Holmes was a real person and that the stories are biography and not fiction. It's often called the Grand Game as well, depending on what side of the Atlantic you're on and what Sherlockian society you belong to.


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June 13, 2012 6:07 pm  #48


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

kazza474 wrote:

veecee wrote:

I wonder if they'll work in the point where John was briefly called James.

Well they did say in the commentary that John's middle name in both versions is Hamish.
Hamish is the Scottish version for James.
They also brought up the argument defending ACD that in some families back in those days, all boys could be named the same Christian name & have different middle names. (eg Brothers could be John James Watson, John Henry Watson & John Archibald Watson)  Hence James/Hamish could be the more 'intimate' name for Watson.

If you think long enough, anything can have an excuse.

I didn't know Hamish was Scottish for James. Thanks.

 

June 14, 2012 6:46 pm  #49


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

Remember Sherlock's clumsy apology folowed by a compliment/insult to John in Hounds? Just found the latter in the original Hound:

"'Really, Watson, you excel yourself...It may be that you are not yourself luminous, but you are a conductor of light. Some people without possessing genius have a remarkable power of stimulating it...'"

I haven't read past it yet to see if Watson is as quick as John to see the backhandedness of the compliment. I doubt it.

 

June 20, 2012 3:03 pm  #50


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

Here is another nod from A Study in Scarlet to The Great Game

From "A Study in Scarlet"

His ignorance was as remarkable as his knowledge. Of contemporary literature, philosophy and politics he appeared to know next to nothing. Upon my quoting Thomas Carlyle, he inquired in the naivest way who he might be and what he had done. My surprise reached a climax, however, when I found incidentally that he was ignorant of the Copernican Theory and of the composition of the Solar System. That any civilized human being in this nineteenth century should not be aware that the earth travelled round the sun appeared to be to me such an extraordinary fact that I could hardly realize it.
"You appear to be astonished," he said, smiling at my expression of surprise. "Now that I do know it I shall do my best to forget it."
"To forget it!"
"You see," he explained, "I consider that a man's brain originally is like a little empty attic, and you have to stock it with such furniture as you choose. A fool takes in all the lumber of every sort that he comes across, so that the knowledge which might be useful to him gets crowded out, or at best is jumbled up with a lot of other things so that he has a difficulty in laying his hands upon it. Now the skilful workman is very careful indeed as to what he takes into his brain-attic. He will have nothing but the tools which may help him in doing his work, but of these he has a large assortment, and all in the most perfect order. It is a mistake to think that that little room has elastic walls and can distend to any extent. Depend upon it there comes a time when for every addition of knowledge you forget something that you knew before. It is of the highest importance, therefore, not to have useless facts elbowing out the useful ones."
"But the Solar System!" I protested.
"What the deuce is it to me?" he interrupted impatiently; "you say that we go round the sun. If we went round the moon it would not make a pennyworth of difference to me or to my work."

And from "The Great Game"

Sherlock Holmes: [sarcastic] Oh, you meant "spectacularly ignorant" in a nice way! Look, it doesn't matter to me who's Prime Minister, or who's sleeping with who--
    John Watson: [somewhat bitterly] Or that the earth goes around the sun.
    Sherlock Holmes: Oh God, that again! It's not important!
    John Watson: Not important? It's primary school stuff! How can you not know that?
    Sherlock Holmes: Well, if I ever did, I've deleted it.
    John Watson: "Deleted it"?
    Sherlock Holmes: Listen: [gets up and points to his head] This is my hard-drive, and it only makes sense to put things in there that are useful. Really useful. Ordinary people fill their heads with all kinds of rubbish, and that makes it hard to get at the stuff that matters! Do you see?
    John Watson: [brief silence; looks at Sherlock incredulously] But it's the solar system!
    Sherlock Holmes: [extremely irritated by now] Oh, hell! What does that matter?! So we go around the sun! If we went around the moon or round and round the garden like a teddy bear, it wouldn't make any difference! All that matters to me is the work! Without that, my brain rots. Put that in your blog - or better still, stop inflicting your opinions on the world!

rob k

 

June 20, 2012 3:10 pm  #51


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

Quote:  Lestrade's first name is never given in the canon. UnQuote.

My reply:

Quite true!  And yet we know that his first name is, in fact "Joseph."

Anybody know how it is that we know this?


rob k

Last edited by rob k (June 20, 2012 3:10 pm)

 

June 21, 2012 12:47 am  #52


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

Has anyone pointed this out......or maybe it's just too damn obvious and not worth mentioning.  The coffee cup John holds while sitting on the park bench with Stamford has the brand label "Criterion" on it; of course a nod to the Criterion Bar where he and Stamford go in the canon.


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June 21, 2012 12:56 am  #53


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

Aye...do you have the DVDs with the commentary? Steven Moffat points that out in the commentary on this one. There are so many references they've thrown in there I'm sure we haven't spotted them all yet!


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June 21, 2012 3:29 am  #54


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

KeepersPrice wrote:

Has anyone pointed this out......or maybe it's just too damn obvious and not worth mentioning.  The coffee cup John holds while sitting on the park bench with Stamford has the brand label "Criterion" on it; of course a nod to the Criterion Bar where he and Stamford go in the canon.

We shouldn't worry about stating the obvious. You never know who has seen or read what. I did not catch that one.

 

June 21, 2012 3:30 am  #55


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

Wholocked wrote:

Aye...do you have the DVDs with the commentary? Steven Moffat points that out in the commentary on this one. There are so many references they've thrown in there I'm sure we haven't spotted them all yet!

I watched commentary cut, but I'm rather sorry I did. It took some of the mystery out of it. (And apparently I missed some fo the comments, anyway.) But different strokes for different folks.

 

June 21, 2012 9:19 am  #56


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

veecee wrote:

Wholocked wrote:

Aye...do you have the DVDs with the commentary? Steven Moffat points that out in the commentary on this one. There are so many references they've thrown in there I'm sure we haven't spotted them all yet!

I watched commentary cut, but I'm rather sorry I did. It took some of the mystery out of it. (And apparently I missed some fo the comments, anyway.) But different strokes for different folks.

Ah yeah see I come from a background in amateur theatre and TV so I'm fascinated by all the behind-the-scenes stuff.


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June 21, 2012 12:22 pm  #57


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

KeepersPrice wrote:

Has anyone pointed this out......or maybe it's just too damn obvious and not worth mentioning.  The coffee cup John holds while sitting on the park bench with Stamford has the brand label "Criterion" on it; of course a nod to the Criterion Bar where he and Stamford go in the canon.

Yeah, apparently Martin held the cup in a really weird way just so the lettering would be a bit clearer. I have to say I never noticed it until I went on this Sherlock Holmes guided tour in London and they told us all about it.


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June 21, 2012 12:43 pm  #58


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

The pilot was more faithful to the canon in this respect because they went for a meal together.


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June 21, 2012 7:56 pm  #59


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

KeepersPrice wrote:

Has anyone pointed this out......or maybe it's just too damn obvious and not worth mentioning.  The coffee cup John holds while sitting on the park bench with Stamford has the brand label "Criterion" on it; of course a nod to the Criterion Bar where he and Stamford go in the canon.

Yeah, apparently Martin held the cup in a really weird way just so the lettering would be a bit clearer. I have to say I never noticed it until I went on this Sherlock Holmes guided tour in London and they told us all about it.

Where did you find the tour? Was it worth it? I want to take one my next trip.
Thanks.

 

June 21, 2012 7:58 pm  #60


Re: Find the original & post other nods to the canon (merged topic)

Smoggy_London_Air wrote:

The title of The Great Game seems to be a reference to the "game" played by serious Sherlockian scholars under the presumption that Sherlock Holmes was a real person and that the stories are biography and not fiction. It's often called the Grand Game as well, depending on what side of the Atlantic you're on and what Sherlockian society you belong to.

I just re-read this. What do you mean by presumption? What are you saying?
I believe in Sherlock Holmes. Moriarty was real.

 

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