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January 22, 2014 3:41 am  #141


Re: "My Elementary Review:"

Might have been another thread, but someone said Elementary was better than Sherlock in that more episodes means better character development.

I'm watching Study in Pink right now, and they've done more character development in 17 minutes and 20 seconds than Elementary has done in 24 episodes, or however many they've got. 

There is something about the Sherlock from the first season though, that I like much better than the ensuing seasons.  Just the right blend of cocky, self-assured, and not caring what others think.  Things seem to have changed slightly in the next two seasons.  Episode 3.1 was just sort of annoying, but I'll wait let it all sink in and see if it makes sense in continuity.


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And I'm assuming she scrubbed your floors, by the state of her knees.
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Cabbie: You're too modest, Mr. Holmes.
Holmes: I'm really not.
 

January 22, 2014 8:27 am  #142


Re: "My Elementary Review:"

That's what the AV Club says...in fact it is one of the most used arguments why Elementary is "better", alongside of having better female characters (bwahhahahahaha - no) and being less racist.

 

January 22, 2014 3:49 pm  #143


Re: "My Elementary Review:"

Elementary doesn't have better female characters, it just has female characters forcibly slammed into more prominent places in the story line.  Neither Watson nor Moriarty work as female leads.

Call me insensitive, but not sure where the racism is raising it's ugly head in Sherlock.  Is it because of Donovan being a bad person?

 


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And I'm assuming she scrubbed your floors, by the state of her knees.
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Cabbie: You're too modest, Mr. Holmes.
Holmes: I'm really not.
 

January 22, 2014 4:23 pm  #144


Re: "My Elementary Review:"

The Blind Banker - and apparently it is very offensive that all main characters in Sherlock are White. There is also the claim that Sherlock shows an entirely white London, but people who claim that either don't watch the show properly or don't pay attention.

 

January 22, 2014 4:39 pm  #145


Re: "My Elementary Review:"

zydeholic wrote:

Elementary doesn't have better female characters, it just has female characters forcibly slammed into more prominent places in the story line.  Neither Watson nor Moriarty work as female leads.

Call me insensitive, but not sure where the racism is raising it's ugly head in Sherlock.  Is it because of Donovan being a bad person?

 

Never considered Donovan bad. She is a dedicated police officer (Lestrades right hand man) and sees her role as covering Lestrades back. I dont see her acting against Sherlock maliciously; merely to protect Lestrade from as she sees it, a dangerous amatuer  and physcopath.. By questioning Sherlocks involvement in the kidnapping she was doing her job.
That was re-inforced in TSoT. She was handed a major arrest on a plate; but wanted Lestrade to have the glory.
 

 

January 22, 2014 8:25 pm  #146


Re: "My Elementary Review:"

I think Elementary is an ok show, is not bad but is there are better shows out there. I recently spent some days visiting a friend who really likes the show and I saw several episodes, I didn't hate it, but I won't keep watching it either.

The main reason the show doesn't interest me is that most of the time I didn't feel like I was watching a Sherlock Holmes adaptation, I read the books some time ago (and I will read them again as soon as I can) but I still remember a few things and when I watch Elementary I feel like I'm watching a bunch of characters that have almost nothing in common with their book counterparts, specially Watson.

And now I'll do the unfair thing and I will compare it to Sherlock because I want to talk about Elementary treating its female characters better (warning, spoilers ahead):

It doesn't.

First of all, I personally don't think that making Watson a woman means Elementary is a feminist show and Sherlock isn't. Yes, Watson is a woman, but she is also a woman who decided to quit her career as a surgeon because she made a mistake, yes it was a terrible mistake and I would never be able to understand how a doctor must feel when a patient dies because of them, but the fact is she allowed that mistake to rule her life, to the point where she decided to abadon a career that requires years and years of hard work because she couldn't deal with the fact that she made a mistake. Not only that, but she also went after a job that didn't make her happy, not because she wanted to help recovering addicts, no, it was because one of her ex-boyfriends became an addict while they were together and she thought her experience meant she was prepared to become a companion. If you think about it, that means she chose her job because she was romantically involved with an addict. There is also the fact that, as @swanpride has said, she doesn't have any other job apart from helping Sherlock, wich means she depends on a man who at the same time is living thanks to his father's money. And if I remember correctly, in some of the later episodes my friend showed me she starts using Sherlock methods to become a detective, to me that means the show thinks super strong female character Joan Watson needs to be like Sherlock to be useful. 

I also saw the episodes with Moriarty and I honestly I don't know how to feel about Irene Adler being Moriarty, one part of me thinks is a clever twist, another part of me can't help thinking that the reason they did this was because in their minds the only way Irene can be Sherlock's equal is if she becomes his most famous enemy. Either way, I enjoyed the character.

And here concludes my brief analysis of Elementary's female characters, because these two are the only female characters that appear in more than one episode (and Irene appears in only a few episodes, she is not really a series regular, according to imdb). Considering they have more than 20 episodes per season, one would think they have enough time to include more female characters, but apparently that's not the case.

Now we have Sherlock, a show that only has 3 episodes per season, and yet they have more female characters than Elementary, they may not be protagonists, but they are important characters none the less:

Miss Hudson, who seems to be so fragile and delicate and yet managed to survive a marriage to a criminal and made sure she got rid of him, and is also smart enough to trick a bunch of american agents and hides what they are looking for with them present.

Molly, clumsy and awkard and completely in love with Sherlock, and yet she can also see his flaws and is able to realize her feelings are completely one-sided and moves on with her life. Oh and she is also smart and perceptive even if most people can't see it.

And then we have Mary, who is really intelligent and warm but can also be ruthless when she feels her life with Jonh is in danger, she is probably the most dangerous character the show has and, even though she has done terrible things, the writers manage to make you care about her.

And none if this characters are defined by the men in their lifes, yes Sherlock and John are important to them but I never felt like they defined them, that makes them strong female characters, not the status of main character.

And again, I don't hate Elementary, but it bothers me when people say it's a more feminist show (or a better one) just because it has a female Watson. 

Last edited by Molly (January 22, 2014 8:35 pm)

 

January 22, 2014 8:31 pm  #147


Re: "My Elementary Review:"

Kudos, Molly! 


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

January 22, 2014 8:37 pm  #148


Re: "My Elementary Review:"

Excellent, Molly, I fully agree with you. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png
 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

January 22, 2014 11:09 pm  #149


Re: "My Elementary Review:"

Good synopsis, Molly.

But, regarding her moving on with her life, not quite.  Her choices in men seem to revolve around Sherlock (last guy dressed like Sherlock, and he was probably some groupie). 

She may be trying to move on, but when you look at the unbridled lust on her face when she sees Sherlock again, in episode 3.1, she's still there in the same place.

Oh, and she took pains to tell Sherlock she was having LOTS OF SEX with her new beau.  So, she's still moth to the flame.  Just trying to stoke the flame.

Molly is my favorite long term character in the series, other than Sherlock and Watson, though Mary is climbing the ranks.  We'll see how long Mary lasts.


============================================================
And I'm assuming she scrubbed your floors, by the state of her knees.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cabbie: You're too modest, Mr. Holmes.
Holmes: I'm really not.
 

January 22, 2014 11:50 pm  #150


Re: "My Elementary Review:"

@Molly Exactly my thought, too. And I want to add that what Elementary did to Irene Adler is even worse than what Sherlock did. ND as female Moriarty is certainly one of the few highlights of the show, but she is one of the worst Irene Adler's ever.

I think, back when Sherlock only had one season, people had a point concerning the female characters. But back then they were still mostly busy fleshing out the main characters, there was really not much time for anyone else and the writing for Sarah was sadly a little bit clunky. But as soon as the basics were established, they offered us some really great female characters - and the best thing is, none of them falls into the "strong female character with a vulnerable side" trope I have come to hate (hatehatehate!!!!!).

 

January 24, 2014 3:25 am  #151


Re: "My Elementary Review:"

I always seem to go to Joss Whedon shows, but Molly Hooper reminds me of Willow, Fred, and Kaylee. She seems like a timid girl with a crush at first, but ends up being incredibly strong.  She is the person Sherlock turns to in his time of need.  She sees him at his most vulernable.  A side he could not let even John see.  She's also like Luna Lovegood in that sense.  Harry Potter confided things in Luna (and Ginny) that he did not feel he could tell Ron and Hermione.

Despite the fact that JLM's Sherlock is considered by many to be "more human" or "more mature that BC's, he show's no affect for Joan, Gregson, Bell, ect.  BC's Sherlock most definately has affection for John, Lestrade, Mrs. Hudson, and Molly.  And they all show affection for him. On Elementary Sherlock and Joan *say* they are friends and people constantly express amazement that Joan has befriended Sherlock, but we never see them enjoying each other's company.  With the Advantage of a 22 episode season, you'd think the writers could squeeze something in.  We got the hilarious sequence of Sherlock taking John on a stag night in So3, but there are moments in every episode where they share a laugh without breaking the stride of the story.

The people who think that Elementary has better character development seem to only recognize character development when it is explained to them.  Like something in the past coming up and Sherlock and Joan having a discussion where they say the words "that's why I..."  On the BBC show, the viewer gets to put things together.  Like Mycroft offering John money for information on Sherlock and John refusing in ASIP, then in ASIB, Mycroft mentioning he couldn't trust his secret service because "they spy on people for money" we can deduce that Mycroft may have been merely testing John's character.  What Jeremy Jahn's says about the Smurf's movie is one of my main problems with Elementary. http://youtu.be/AMIxaqsq5NQ
http://youtu.be/AMIxaqsq5NQ

 


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"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
Whoa.  Sherlock was quoting Spock who was quoting Sherlock....Mind blown!!

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/josabby/MinionSherlockJohn.jpg
 

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